Removing Everything That Isn’t You: A Journey Back To Yourself

 

Embracing your most authentic version is not about adding things to yourself, but instead removing everything that is not you. Through healing and mindfulness, unleashing the real you is possible. Joining Tim Westbrook, MS is composer and musician Jason Campbell, who guides people on cultivating awareness, emotional balance, and peace through the power of breath and presence. He shares his work at Zen Wellness, where he teaches how breathwork and meditation can quiet the mind, reconnect the body, and open the heart. Jason also presents how he uses his musical skills to elevate meditation practices to achieve better nervous system regulation and stress management.

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Removing Everything That Isn’t You: A Journey Back To Yourself

Welcome back, everyone, to another episode. I’m here with Jason Campbell. This is an extra special episode because we’re blending recovery healing and mindfulness here in real-time. Jason Campbell is a Cofounder and Master Instructor at Zen Wellness, a lifelong student and teacher of meditation, martial arts, breath work and Eastern philosophy. Jason is also an accomplished composer whose meditation albums have reached millions of listeners worldwide.

His work bridges ancient traditions with modern science, helping people regulate nervous systems, release stored stress and find balance in their lives. He’s taught thousands of students how to cultivate awareness, emotional balance, and peace through the power of breath and presence which as we know are our essential tools in recovery. In this conversation, we’ll explore Jason’s journey, the philosophy behind Zen Wellness, and the science and spirit of breathwork. Jason will guide us through a live breathwork session or meditation. Everyone here can experience first-hand how to quiet the mind, reconnect the body, and open the heart. Jason, welcome.

Thank you. We could do it with the piano. I don’t know if it’s going to translate with the show.

That would be amazing. When we get there, if you guys want to do that with the piano, we can do that with the piano or we can do it out here. I know you love your instruments, so maybe we can do it with the piano.

It’s something different. When I walked in, I didn’t expect to see a beautiful piano. That’s always cool.

I appreciate your flexibility.

Achieving Happiness Through Mind Emptiness

Let me start with the story. It’s a very old story, a very famous story. Siddhartha, who went on to become what we call the first Buddha. His mom called him Siddhartha like everyone else called them Buddha, but there’s many Buddhas. Buddha just means awakened one. That’s all. It’s more of a title. It wasn’t his actual name. He was doing his thing. He was teaching. He used to teach for nine months and then meditate for three and then teach for nine. He was on a rotation. He lived until he was 80, so he was one of the older guys.

Jesus made it to 33 right around there. Siddhartha made it a little longer. There’s two brothers that he was training. One brother was very smart, very intellectual. Another brother was not too smart. He shows up and he’s like, “Here’s what we’re going to do. We’re going to do these mantras. We’re going to do these, transcribe and do all this. See you guys in a year.” He does this thing and comes back a year later. The smart brother does everything perfectly. The not so smart brother got confused and couldn’t do it. Siddhartha was looking at him.

He gives the smart brother things. He’s like, “Do this. You do this. Transcribe this. Do these mantras ten times a day.” Not so smart brother says, “Do you know what we’re going to do? We’re going to clean. Here’s the rack. We’re going to clean this. Clean over here. You got this. Clean this. Clean the whole place. See you in a year.” He comes back and again, the smart brother does everything. The not so smart brother is confused. He couldn’t get it. Siddhartha gives a smart brother more. He does that. The not so smart brother goes, “Check this out. Bro, are you ready? Are you with me? Sweet. Ready? Got it? See you in a year.” He shows up one year later. The smart brother does all the work. The not so smart brother reaches enlightenment.

I’ve never heard that story before. That’s great.

The cerebral activity doesn’t make you happy. The monkey mind doesn’t create happiness. If we go into something a little bit like energetics, energetic anatomy. If I say pineal gland, think of it as the antenna. That’s the antenna to the universe, the antenna to God. Sometimes, it’s called the eye of God. Call it whatever we want. Think little transistor radio. You have this like picking up a signal and sometimes you’ll hear or you’ll read text like, “Strengthen the pineal or the fluoride hurts the pineal.” All that is correct.

Cerebral activity does not make you happy. Share on X

However, the fundamental problem is that we have two lobes of interference. It’s a static thing. That’s the voice in the head. That’s the monkey in the head or sometimes, the asshole that lives in your head. To activate the pineal, it’s more about removal and dropping the static than it is about addition. It’s more about subtraction than addition. When you remove the voice in the head, it goes, “Ah, okay.” Now, when I was a teenager, in my late teens, I asked my martial art teacher. I said, “What is that?”

He looked at me and side kicked me. He hit me so hard. I can feel it now as I tell the story. It was painful and I went flying. I hit the wall. He smiled and walked away. He didn’t say a word. That was my answer. If he had explained to me, “Zen is stopping the monkey mind. Dropping the assassin’s dream of thinking so you can come into the moment. No pass. No fear.” I was a dumb teenager. Maybe I’m a dumb adult now. What’s the difference?

I wouldn’t have gotten it, but what he did is he got me to experience Zen because in the moment when I was flying through the dojo, there was no past and no future. There was only now. I might even have had a word for it. Sometimes, Zen words are just swear words. In your most present moment, a swear comes in. That’s okay. It is what it is. A lot of just being still is about dropping the cerebral activity. Michelangelo did a few small pieces of art, but he hated painting. There’s a whole story.

He painted the Sistine Chapel begrudging. He’s a grumpy man but he saw himself as a sculptor. He was a true master of sculpting and his approach was that he would see this blah. There’s all types of rumors that he could touch it and feel if it was pure. Who knows if that’s true or not? It’s a nice story, but his approach was, “I’m not creating anything. I’m removing everything it isn’t.”

It’s about removal. It’s not about addition. It’s removing. There’s a lot of different ways we can say that. We can say addition through subtraction or removing everything that isn’t you because we get covered up with nonsense and the voice in the head. It’s more about removal. Back to Siddhartha, the first Buddha. Years later, he was asked the question, what is enlightenment and he didn’t want to answer that question. When pressed, he did answer. and his answer was, the removal of suffering. Notice how he didn’t say what it is. He said what it’s not.

If you said, “What’s that you’re holding in your hand?” I said, “It’s not an elephant.” Does that help you? Maybe. One thing down, but you can’t say. If you put enlightenment into words, it’s tough. The mind tries to capture it. It’s almost like the mind’s the best friend and your worst enemy simultaneously. It will do a schedule and make dinner and solve a crossword puzzle but it will also torture you at the same time. It won’t shut up and it will give a voice. It will be negative and it will do all types of negative.

It’s like, you need it because we’re not animals. It’s one of the reasons we like animals. Animals are not trying to eat you and stuff. We like dogs as pets and cats, a three-legged cat or a three-legged Panther because they’re so honest and pure. They don’t have that monkey mind. When dogs are happy, it wags its tail. Trying to conceal its excitement to see you. Back to its removal, so much in life is removal of suffering. What is suffering? If you oversimplify suffering, it comes down to three things, attaching, resisting, and judging.

It’s gross over simplification but we attach, we cling, and we judge like, “This is bigger, higher or lower. I’m better. I’m worse. I’m younger. I’m older. I’m this. That person has more. That person has all that.” It’s like the same comparison is the thief of joy. You’re happy with something until you compare. I had one of my students years ago.

 

She told the story of growing up very poor and it was a South American country, like dirt floor barefoot with her six sisters. She was happy until she realized she was poor. It wasn’t until later on she realized she was poor. It sucked all her happiness but growing up, she was happy as a clam. Her and her sisters used to fight all day. It’s a South American thing.

It’s like my dogs. They fight all day long and they’re just so happy. They don’t know if they’re rich or poor.

There was nothing and it wasn’t until later on that she realized, “What? I’m poor?” That came in. Could you imagine now with that Instagram and then comparison? It’s all a lie, by the way. All the stuff is a lie. It’s, “That person has this and now I don’t.” You compare and it becomes a thief of joy. There’s attachment, resistance, and judgment.

What is the resistance? Usually, it’s just the resistance to now because it’s always you, you’re always here, and it’s always now. Those three things have never not been true. You use the word mindfulness, and let me nuance that word for a moment. I used to think that word was like an evil Dallas master. Spread that word. Why? We all use the word mindful. If you go back into some mind literature years ago, you’ll find mindfulness. We’ve all used the word mindful but if you think about it. Stuffing your mind more full with more stuff is going to make you happy? No, it’s the opposite. It’s mind emptiness.

Mindfulness is the problem. It’s the opposite of the word. When I did some research, it was a mistranslation of the Sanskrit word Sati. There’s a Buddha scholar about 100 years ago. He was translating and he used the word Sati, which may be a better translation. Translations are tough. He did his best and blessings to him for doing all the translations. Sati may be a better word. It’s like awareness. We say mindful, meaning aware and pointing but it’s a funny thing. It’s the opposite. It’s mind is empty.

If we say mind is empty or mindless, we think of that as low intelligence like that’s mindless. It’s also a present or awareness. It’s not something you can work on. It’s only something you can experience because there’s only one time you can be present, which is when? Now. It’s a funny thing because you’ll see it’s all types of literature and it’s well-meaning. When you say, “You need to work,” or the monkey mind says to you. This is the monkey mind and it will try to trick you and say, “You need to work on being more mindful.”

Everything about that statement is false because you can’t work on it. You can only be present and my martial arts instructor knew that. He kicked me. He put me into the now. It’s like a Winston Churchill quote. Something to the effect of, “Nothing is more exhilarating than to be shot out without result.” No past. No future. You’re just completely there. I’m going to go out on a limb. I’m going to use the word happy because we can nuance that word. The happier or happier as time usually is because there was presence. There’s some presence or when you’re engaged in something that’s presence, even something physical. Maybe it’s pickleball or whatever it is, when you’re completely engaged. It’s just you, a ball and hit. There’s no past and no future. There’s only now that a lot of the cerebral activity. It puts you in the now. Cold bath also.

I was just saying the same thing. It’s like one of the best ways to get rid of the monkey mind is you have to do a cold punch. Who here has done a cold plunge? You have to be present. You can’t think about the past. You can’t think about the future. You’re just right here. If your mind is racing, you’ll last fifteen seconds and you have to jump out.

Usually, there’s a popular cold plunge word when you jump in, “Fuck.” That’s okay. Whatever.

I had my dad come and do a cold plunge. He hopped and it was cold. He was like in the 30s. He got in and he’s like, “Oh, fuck. Damn.” This is my dad. I was like, “Good job.”

Those were his Zen words.

How Jason’s Zen Wellness Journey Began

You’ve said you’ve dedicated your life to studying both martial and healing arts. What originally drew you to this path?

My next birthday is 56, and I began this process at age 8. However, many years that is. I stopped counting after like 30. My first introduction to Zen or to meditation. We didn’t use the word Zen. We didn’t even use the word meditation. It’s to my music teacher. As an eight-year-old boy, I showed up for a music lesson, this woman, a Russian lady.

Before we even played a note, she said to me, “Never listen to notes. Idiots listen to notes. Masters listen to the space in between the notes. When you listen to a note, your mind becomes cluttered and you hear nothing. When you listen to space or silence, your mind becomes clearer and you hear everything.” My introduction was “gong” and we played a note. As it faded, you’d listen.

When you listen to silence, your mind becomes clearer and you can hear everything. Share on X

That again, let’s listen to the silence. You’re removing. You’re looking for emptiness.

Years later, I had said something to the effect of, “What about you’re playing so many notes and you’re so fast and there’s no space in between the notes?” She’s like, “You’re so stupid. You’re such an idiot.” She said, “You listen to the space underneath.” There’s a lot of metaphors. If you have a painting, you have a canvas. The painting can only exist with the canvas. It’s like sound needs silence. It needs something to come out of.

The word exists is Latin. It means to stand out. To stand out from nothing. If you look around, there’s more emptiness or space than form but the mind just wants to see the form. The mind doesn’t want to see emptiness. If you listen, there’s more silence and there is sound but the ears don’t want to hear that because they’re not trained.

I can remember being a teenager. My uncle is a master painter. I never showed any skill in painting but I had family members that do. He had this big giant mural and there’s this green flowing grass. He said, “Jason, look at the grass. What do you see?” I said, “Grass. Green.” He’s like, “Really?” I was trying to get clever and I said, “Jade.” He’s like, “No.” I’m like, “Flowing motion. Brushstroke.” He’s like, “No.” I didn’t get it and when he told me then he said, “The absence of red.” I’m like, “Ah, okay.”

You take all the colors. All three of them. You take the three primaries, blue, yellow and red. Toss them in a mix. Pull out the red and what do you get? Green. Don’t see it for what it is. See it by what it’s not. The same as Siddhartha. I reach inside of you and I pull out all your attachment, your resistance and judgment. What do we get? Sweet. We get enlightenment.

Breathing: The Lowest Hanging Fruit For Wellness

Let’s talk about breath work as an art and a science and medicine. How does the breath connect to the nervous system and help with emotional regulation?

Let’s think about this. You wake up in the morning and if you do something 20,000 times a day, every day. Would it be a good idea to get good at it? Let’s start with that. Probably. Now there’s a myth. Do you know the 10,000 hour myth?

Yes.

There’s truth to the 10,000 hours but it needs to be nuanced. You say, “You do something for 10,000 hours and then you master it.” If you do something masterly for 10,000 hours and you master it. Does anyone know anyone that’s been driving for 10,000 hours and still not a good driver?

For sure.

If you think about it, every fourteen months, you’ve taken and you’ve done 10,000 hours of breathing. Every day, you take about 20,000 breaths a day. If you think, what’s the lowest hanging fruit for wellness? We have eating, sleeping, breathing, and drinking. How far can you go without sleep or how long? How long can you go without food? How long can you go without water? How long can you go without breath?

Not very long.

Which is most important? It’s the breath. That’s like the lowest hanging fruit for wellness and then there’s all types of stuff. All the studies are now coming out more and more over the last twenty years about what it does to your nervous system, your nitric oxide and your emotions. This has been known for tens of thousands of years. How far back can you go? Who knows? I know our lineage goes back. We can trace it 3,000 years or probably longer, but it’s been going on for a long time.

I started doing triathlons in 2016 and I remember I was having trouble running. I started seeing this guy named Larry Arnold. First, he watched me run from here to like the tree over there and then he said, “Stop. No more running.” He said, “You’re not breathing.” I’m like, “What are you talking about? What do you mean I’m not breathing?” He said, “Watch, I’ll show you.” He had me put on some boxing gloves. He had me spar a little bit and I started seeing stars. He’s like, “I told you. It’s because you’re not breathing.”

That was when I first realized that I wasn’t breathing correctly. I started focusing and being much more aware of my breath. Since then, now I can pay attention. I can see most people are walking around with very short shallow breaths and that leads to anxiety, depression and lots of mental health issues. It leads a lot to problems.

Do you know the one problem with mastering your breath? You can’t monetize it. There’s no copay. There’s no insurance. There’s no pills, potions, and lotions. The bigger companies can’t make money on breath.

 

They’ve got some apps out there now.

That’s great. Whatever works. Whatever gets you to do it. Some people like to gamify. If you gamify it, great. It doesn’t matter. Whatever gets up the mountain if you want a gamify.

Live Breathing Practice Segment With Jason

To your point, breathwork, learning how to breathe correctly is like the lowest hanging fruit.

It’s all simple. It starts with one breath now. That’s it. Let’s do it. In through the nose and out through the mouth. That’s it. Congratulations, you just did breathwork. You could even say you did meditation for the day. Do you want to nuance it? When you breathe in, take your tongue and touch your upper teeth and gums. Almost like two wires. It’s like touching two live wires because we have a circuitry. We have an internal circuitry and it breaks there. It breaks there and it breaks in your butt, basically. Right at your perineum. Have you heard of a Kegel?

The yogis call it Mula bandha. When I learned it, it was called squeeze your butt. I’m like, “What?” What it is, it’s like the circuitry breaks here and it breaks there. You squeeze a little and a little touch in the circuitry or internal wiring system. If you think about it, what are we made up of? We got meat, flesh bones, fluids, levers, pulleys, a circuit board, and the little dollop of consciousness when we walked around. Let’s try it. You do your tongue on the tip when you breathe in and you drop your tongue. There you go. Now it’s like one step. We can nuance breathwork or breathe mastery a lot more but that’s the most basic.

You also purge more toxins out of your mouth than anything else. It’s like a lot of stuff comes. That’s why masks are a little gross. Walking around with a mask is like walking out of the diaper. It’s a little discussion. It’s like you want to purge. Something else you can do, you add visualization. When you exhale, you picture smoke coming out like dark turbid smoke. It cleans out the crap. We all have crap inside of us. Let’s just do it.

We breathe in and tongue up and then visualize smoke. It should feel good. It’s like, we’re just cleaning. Almost like a distillery. You clean it out. When you feel stressed or anxious, just breathe and picture smoke. Does it fix anything? It cleans. If we think of stress or anxiety, think of it as a vibration like a tuning fork. You have to have some stress. We have to have some anxiety, some anger, and some grief. There’s no such thing. It’s like if you’re always happy, you’re never happy.

In order for happiness to exist, it needs its opposite. Why does the Super Bowl work? It’s because there’s a loser. There’s a built-in tragedy. Someone’s going to feel tragedy or whoever’s emotionally invested in the losing but it can only work. If both teams won the Super Bowl, it wouldn’t work. The victor needs someone to defeat.

One of my favorite lines being in recovery, I get to feel my emotions. Not just the good ones. It’s all of it. I get to feel all of the emotions and be clean and sober. On this path, I get to experience all the emotions. Being angry, lonely, sad, tired and in pain, then the joy on the other side feels a lot better.

You need it. There’s no such thing. Otherwise, then you’re a reptile. After a reptile lay eggs, they’re programmed just in their genetic makeup to leave. Why? It’s because they need their kids. Mammals don’t do that. Mammals will love their children, but we’re not reptiles. You have to experience it. What does a superhero need to exist? What does it need? A super villain. What do you call a superhero without a super villain? A weirdo in tights or unemployed. It needs its opposites. In order to experience joy or victory, you have to experience it. You have to. If you’re always happy, you’re never happy.

You need its opposite. Now, we’re in the breath with emotion. We can say emotional mastery. It’s a funny word, because sometimes that can imply, “I’m only happy. I’m only positive.” Show me someone who’s only positive and only happy. I’ll show you either someone who’s lying or delusional. It doesn’t exist. I spend my whole life doing this. I have dark stuff. You have to. It’s like, at the end of the cupcake, there’s a pile of shit. No shit, no cupcake.

Achieving Regulation By Experiencing Dysregulation

Many of our audience members and people here were in recovery. I’m in recovery. How does breathwork or meditation help someone who’s healing from addiction, trauma, anxiety or depression? When I think about the bad emotions or the dark emotions, the goal is to get through those emotions more quickly. How can we get there?

The other way we can think of it is you turn fertilizer into a tomato.

Fertilizer doesn’t smell very good.

No, that’s the dark emotion through a tomato but the tomato can only exist with the fertilizer like you need them. You need the dark emotions. If you can say dark emotions, you turn them into fuel. One way is through the breath. In order to be regulated, you have to experience this regulation. In order to be centered, you have to lose the center. If you are always centered, the center doesn’t exist. The center can only exist when you get off center. Otherwise, it doesn’t exist. You get off center.

You have to experience dysregulation to be centered. If you are always centered, the center does not exist. Share on X

To be regulated only exists if you’re dysregulated. I’ll say the mastery is how quickly can you recover? Not if but when you get off center or get dysregulated or go dark or whatever it is. The mastery is, “I’m here.” How quickly can I get back? You have a whole tool. This whole place is filled with tools for that. We’re in a toolkit of ways to go from dysregulation to regulation and think of breath as one of the most powerful tools and the simplest. We did the visualization. The other real simple one is box breathing. Are we familiar with it?

Yes.

You breathe in and breathe out for four seconds and hold. The magic happens on holding the outbreath, by the way. Of the four, that’s where the magic. Let’s just do it. We’ll do sixteen seconds. We breathe in. Hold. Breathe out. Here’s the magic. Hold the outbreath, and then breathe in. Breath out smoke. Do that for sixteen seconds. If you feel a little more regulated, little dollop. Sometimes, it feels like a drop. There’s a book written 10 or 20 years ago called 10% happier about meditation. You don’t need to read the book. I’ll give you the cliff notes of it. It’s meditation, which is dropping the cerebral activity.

It doesn’t solve all your problems, but it can make you 10% happier. Sometimes, that 10% is like the field goal at the end of a game or something. It’s like the winning shot at the end of a sporting event or whatever. It can tip from 51%. Do you want to consider yourself a positive thinker? Be positive 51% of the time. I made it to 55%. There’s still dark stuff but that’s all it needs. There’s no such thing as 100, back to that. If it’s 100, then that doesn’t exist.

Breathe regulates the nervous system. When you get dysregulated, the breath is one tool you can use to come back. Let’s do that again. I have a bunch of music that’s meant for breathing because there’s a bell every four seconds. Breathe in. Hold. Breathe out. Hold. Let’s do it one more time. Breathe in. Hold. Breathe out. Hold. Breathe in. Those songs are five minutes long. You just put on one song, close your eyes and just breathe through the bell. What will happen is your mind will drift and you’ll forget then you’ll hear a bell and you’ll remember, then your mind will drift and you’ll hear the other way.

That music is used for five minutes. You lay down and just breathe once to the bell. Don’t even hold the same thing, you’ll drift and you’ll get off and then you’ll come back on. You’ll find after five minutes, you’re just a little more regulated. You’re a little more even. How long do you stay regulated for? Until you’re not. It’s like you rake sand at the beach. How long does the sand stay smooth? Until it gets messed up. How long do we stay smooth? Until we get messed up, then you come back.

Differences Between Breathwork And Meditation

The box breathing is such an easy way to reset. If I’m stressed out or spending out, I can just do a little box breath reset to get back. At our admin meeting, we always start with little breath work to get stable and get grounded. There’s many ways that I’ve learned to get stable and get grounded. I bring myself back to center through breath work, meditation, doing a cold plunge, going for a run, or doing yoga. In your opinion. What’s more powerful, breathwork or meditation?

We have three characters here and they mean a lot of things but we’re made up of matter, energy, and consciousness. The matter, we all know that. That’s everything we can see, touch, and feel. The energy is the bioelectrical energy that runs through us. There’s many different words, the chi, the qi, the ki, the prana, but also the breath. It runs through the circuitry and emotion. With matter, you can see, touch, and feel it but with emotion you can’t see, touch, and feel. It’s like showing me anger. We can show eyes that have anger in them, but you can’t hold anger in your hand. It’s energy.

This consciousness is the observer. We have the human and we have the being. Human changes. Being never changes. The being is the same as when all of us were that observer back here, but everything else completely changes. Let’s make a few metaphors. If I have H2O, solid, liquid, and vapor. Ice, water, and mist. It’s all H2O. Anyone raised a Catholic? The Catholics teach the Father, the Son, the Holy Ghost. Most Catholics don’t understand it, though. I used to train a bunch of nuns. Nuns are great students. They were into it. I used to teach them sword. Nuns with swords. How cool is that?

It’s the holy trinity, then we say, there’s three types of meditation. There’s sitting, standing, and moving and then we have breath, movement, and intention. To answer your question, it’s all the above, but the lowest hanging fruit is the breath because here’s the problem with meditation. When I was teaching this many years ago, we would say, “Meditate for 40 minutes in the morning and 40 minutes at night.” Everyone goes, “Okay.” They sit and do it. I’ll come back a week later or a month later and that’s okay but I will do it.

You say that now, “Meditate for 40 minutes in the morning and 40 minutes at night.” Most people will run scared. There’s a lower attention span. Some won’t but many will. A lot of it has to do with the phone and all these things. Also, here’s the other thing that happens. I’m going to meditate. I’m going to do my meditation. I’m still in the mindset. “What are you doing here? You could be returning emails. You could be doing this. What about this person? What about this?” By the end of it, you’re stressed out from a twenty minute meditation. Has anyone experienced that? Most have at some point.

That’s why it’s a little easier to start with the breath. If you just lay down and do one song and do five minutes and do box breathing or just breathing with it. There’s a focal point and we say chain the monkey to the tree, the monkey mind. When the monkey runs crazy, the monkey will come up with some dark stuff. We chained the monkey to the tree. You do that with your breath. However, the monkey is a master locksmith. It will escape.

No matter how much you train that chain to that thing, it will say, “You’re good. You got me.” The monkey ran off and escaped. Usually, breathing is the lowest hanging fruit, but you got to move. That helps still the mind, what we talked about earlier, it drops the cerebral activity. I think like 50,000 to 80,000, thoughts a day, we all have and 99% of the same thoughts we had. We get on this like skipped records. Does anyone know skip recorders? It’s like when you just repeat. It’s like a loop.

How can slowing down and tuning in change how we relate to cravings, emotions, anxiety, and depression?

If we look at emotion, what is emotion? It’s emotion. We think emotion is a vibration. If you nuanced emotion, different emotions get stored in different organs and different emotions of colors and sounds because it’s a vibration. If I waive my finger twenty times per second up to 20,000 times per second. I can’t do it that fast but if I could, we would perceive that a sound like a tuning fork. If I did it 50,000 times per second, we wouldn’t hear it. What’s your dog’s name?

Wayne.

Wayne would. 80,000 times per second Maverick would hear it. It’s like a dog whistle. Seven times you and I don’t hear but elephants hear it. They talk below. Everything from light, sound, emotions, if you think of it as vibration, it’s like a tuning fork. I can even show you the piano. If I push up the damper pedal and I go, “hmmm,” which is 220 beats. One of the strings from 220 to A will start to resonate. It’s the law of resonance.

We think of all of it as emotion or emotion is vibration. There’s the vibration. Can you go into the vibration to feel it or even feel the space underneath it? The mind wants to create a story around it, but can you drop the story and just feel the vibration? Is it comfortable? Probably not. Can you just go “ha” into it and feel it? That’s one way. There’s a lot of tools of emotional mastery. That’s one tool in emotional mastery. We do that with breath, meditation and sound.

Making Breathwork Doable Every Single Day

I want to tell everybody where they can find your music and I also want to do a little meditation with the piano. I want to open the floor. Do you folks have any questions or anything on your mind?

It means I covered everything. I take that as a compliment. Any a-ha moments? Any like, “That was interesting,” you want to share? If not, that’s okay.

That bell, was that an app?

That was on Spotify. That’s one of my albums.

He releases one album every single month. He’s been on the Billboard Top 40 List. How many albums do you have?

Over a hundred.

We’ll tell you where to get his music from.

It’s on YouTube and all the major platforms.

What would you say to someone if you’re helping them with breath work and they say, “I can’t do it?” How can you help them think about that navigation?

The first thing that I think when it’s like, “Great. Stop breathing.” You’re right, you can’t breathe. Good, and then see how long that lasts. Maybe inject a little humor into it but it’s like the sweep story. You know this. I’m preaching to the choir here, but the more you can just meet someone where they’re at and just breathe. Maybe that’s it. It’s like, “I don’t have time to meditate.” What? What do you mean you don’t have time to meditate? I don’t have time to meditate.

Let’s do this now. Everyone, close your eyes. Take one, inhale. Exhale. Open your eyes. Congratulations, you just meditated. You have time to do it. Maybe that’s it. Maybe it’s one. Once you do, it’s like, you do that and the mind will say, “Maybe I’ll do two. Maybe I’ll do two breaths. Maybe I’ll do three.” Did anyone see Forrest Gump? There was a story when Forrest Gump was running. He’s like, “I’m just going to go to the edge of the town. I’ll go to the edge of the state. I’ll go to the edge of the country.” He has a plan.

I do this bike ride on Tuesday and Thursday. The bike rides are hard and they’re fast. I’m with a group of people and we go up this hill. I have these little landmarks. We get through the golf course and I’m like, “I’m going to make it to the roundabout. I make it to the roundabout, I’m going to make it to the next turn. When I make it to the next turn, I’m going to make it to the next turn, then I’m going to make it to the big house on the right. I’m going to make it to the wash. I’m going to make it to the first peak.” I just pushed myself to one more breath because of climbing all the way at the top of the hill. It’s too much. You’re done. You think about doing however many breaths. It’s too much.

One breath now. One push to that one hill. Whatever it is. One step. Whatever the short time because the mind gets overwhelmed. I bike ride, too. You get to this one part, it’s like your whole body goes, “I’m going to die.”

My eyes are popping out of my head.

You’re six minutes in. It’s like, to this then that’s it. If I want to quit, fine. After this I quit. Fine, I’ll do one more.

Consciously Using Breath To Transform Your Mental State

One more section. What’s the difference between simply breathing deeply and consciously using your breath to transform your mental state?

That’s good. Here’s the good news about box breathing. It works even if you have a bad attitude and even if you don’t believe it. Even if you do it poorly, even if you bitch in and moan. The metaphor is push-ups. Push-ups work with a bad attitude, with bad form and with holding your breath. You can piss and moan all your way to the push-ups before and after. You can be angry doing it. You can say, “I don’t believe in the stupid stuff.” Do 100 a day for a month. Let’s see what happens. With no belief and with a bad attitude holding your breath and doing everything wrong. It still works. Now, will it work better with that attitude?

Will it be more enjoyable with a good attitude? Probably.

This is what Siddhartha used to say. Also, back to the Buddha. Someone asked him, “Is suffering necessary?” He’s like, “100% it’s necessary.” It is 100% necessary that you suffer until you realize it’s not necessary. In order to realize it’s not, you have to suffer.

That’s like acceptance is the answer to all my problems and that’s one of the things we say in recovery. It’s like, what you resist persists. If I’m trying to fight whatever is happening.

Did any see Groundhog Day? I’m doing all these movie references. The story of it was a deep profound teaching in Groundhog Day. The teaching was, the character was in resistance. He was funny, though, because it was Bill Murray. It was a funny resistance but he hated this. Everything was stupid and everyone was wrong and an idiot. He got into a karmic loop of repeating the same day over and over again. He’s just repeating it and repeating it.

In the third act, he said something to the effect of, “This moment is enough.” When he said that, he went from resistance to allowing. Once he was allowed, everyone he touched grew and blossomed, so he went through. That’s the teaching of the cross. Why have you forsaken me? Resistance to not my will, but thy will be done. What do you have to allow? This moment. This moment is enough because this is all you have. You have this moment. What more do you have? Past and future only exist here. This moment is enough and then your nervous system changes with that.

How quickly can someone notice a change in their being just by doing breathwork?

As quick as you let it, but then also realize that you get off center and you get dysregulated. It’s okay. You’ve heard let go and allow. How do you let go? You have to first be holding on. If you’re not holding on, you can’t let go. The letting go and allowing can only exist when you first resist. It’s a constant back and forth. There’s the old saying, the only constant in the universe is change. Every time we breathe, we change.

Every seven years, every one of your cells has died and been reborn. From seven years ago, there’s not one selling you that’s the same. It’s changed. You can transform but just transform in this moment and that’s enough. You get out of whack and then come back. If you do it 20 times a day or 20,000 times a day, what’s the difference? You’re doing it now.

It’s like life is happening for me and not to me. That’s the path of life, the journey of life. Getting twisted up, going here, going there, turning right, turning left, and making a decision that next time maybe I’ll make a different decision. It wasn’t a bad decision. It was just a decision that I made that had certain results.

A good decision can only exist with a bad decision. Everything needs polarity. If it’s always daytime, it’s never daytime. Nighttime creates daytime. It may sound funny, but what creates good? Evil or bad. What creates joy? Suffering or whatever word we want to use. There’s an old metaphor in swordsmanship.

It’s the old riddle and the riddle is, what’s the opposite of death? Usually, the knee jerk is life, but if I’m going to say a riddle. It’s never what you think it is. Life has no opposite. The opposite of death is birth. They’re the yin and yang symbol, birth and death. In order to create a birth, we need a death. It can be metaphorical death. That’s why with the sword. The sword created your birth. Let’s think about that.

When you’re first born, you get a cut. A sword shows up. You have to cut the cord. Mom experiences a death. Mom just lost a body part. The baby just experienced birth. The birth begins with the cutting of the cord. Not life. Life begins obviously long before that, but the actual birth. No. It begins with the sword. Sometimes, you have to cut things in your life. Maybe you have to cut a habit or a person. Sometimes you have to cut people in order to be reborn. It’s like with the sword, you got to cut it in order to give birth. Lightning strikes a tree. There’s death but then there’s also this beautiful birth that comes. You have birth and death.

I know that I have to close the door on something before new opportunities present themselves. Even with the relationship, I got to close that door. If that door is still open, if the back door is still open, I’m never going to be able to move forward to the next thing.

We all have something you need to cut in your life. Every day, you have to cut. You cut a thought pattern. You cut a habit. Again, sometimes it’s big. Maybe it’s a relationship or a lifestyle or a career or a job. Maybe you’re so cool and your life is so good, all you need to do is cut your fingernails and your hair. You got to get something. Look at the landscape. A lot of things have to be cut around here.

 

Doing Breathwork Meditation With Piano

We want to move indoors and we’ll hop on the piano. We’ll do a little breathwork meditation. Does that sound good? Let’s do it.

Here’s what we’ll do, and I was not planting this. I had no idea that we were going to do this. I’m just going to play. It’s called The I Ching or Book of Changes. What I’ll do is I’ll play a few things from an album that’s going to come out in January. It hasn’t worked out. All you do is just close your eyes and see if you can dial into the space in the notes or the space underneath. It won’t go along. I’ll go five minutes or so or something like that and just see.

The other thing that happens is, sometimes if you ask yourself a question, “What’s the best solution for that? What’s the best solution for something?” You let the cerebral activity drop. You access what we spoke about before. You access some of the intuition or pineal or whatever we’re going to say. Let’s have some fun. I’m not sure what’s going to happen in the next five minutes.

We’ll do this and then after we can reflect, process and whatever.

Again, I’ll just go about five minutes. How did we do? I kept a timer because the music can drift as you know. At some point in your life music gave you chills, but it’s different for everyone here. It’s a different song. It was a different time. It was a different scenario. You all have your go-to playlist probably or you feel happy. Any insights? Any a-has at all? If not, that’s okay.

I was just searching for the space between the notes. That’s what I was focused on, and the silence and room the removal of sound. That was focused on. That helped me because my mind is all over the place. I’m thinking about what I got to do later, what I did early, or whether or not I pressed the record. I swear for the first five minutes, “Did I press the play?” I don’t know. That would be such a shame to record this whole episode and not have it recorded. I’ve done that before. I’m traumatized. I did that one time with Dr. Robbie Westerman. We were in there and I was sitting there. We’re in my little show room and I was like, “I don’t think I pressed it.” He looked over and usually, there’s a little timer.

I’ve done that recording music on the piano because I have a studio and a whole setup. I was recording this whole thing. I was like, “Got it.” It’s like, “I didn’t run the tape. I didn’t press the record.” That happens. Not everything is captured.

I know. It’s like that was a practice. Meditation is not about escaping. It’s more about becoming more present for it. We’re able to apply that principle to this little meditation. Anybody want to share their experience?

I’ve been dealing with a little health issues and anxiety and listening to music brought me to this moment. It felt like it moved me.

Do you use Spotify or iTunes? What’s your go-to?

I use iHeartRadio.

I don’t deal with iHeart very much. I’m sure I’m there, but if you look up. My suggestion is just go to my latest release. Most of them are Zen piano. Some other ones are like the ones with the bells. If you just go to that and the songs are 3 to 5 minutes long. Put on one. If you can do a longer one, great but just one song. Headphones are best. It sounds better with headphones but if you listen to it on your phone, it’s fine. You can do it.

Jason’s Creative Process In Developing Music

What’s your creative process behind developing your music?

There’s a long answer and a short answer. I’ll give you a very short answer or one of them. It’s about not thinking. The mind gets in the way. Again, it’s your best friend and your worst enemy. You’re happy as when you’re not thinking. That’s for sure. Thinking never makes you happier. If we had a Sci-Fi movie, and I know there’s been a lot of movies where the police chief committed the crime, but the police chief doesn’t know it committed the crime. It’s searching for the criminal but it’s himself.

You are happy when you are not thinking. Share on X

I’m sure there’s a bunch of movies that have been like that. That’s our monkey mind. The monkey mind has committed the crime, but it looks for the solution but it doesn’t know it’s the problem. It’s a funny thing. You find the most joy when you have the least amount of clunk. We need to do cerebral activity. We have to be very practical, but that’s when you’re in the zone. You feel like you feel best. Everyone’s a little different, has a different nervous system. Sometimes it’s tactile and sometimes it’s a cold plunge.

If you’re familiar with Wim Hof, I don’t know him personally. I love what he does, but my understanding of his backstory is he was in so much pain in his life. He felt less pain in the cold than needed out of the cold. You got to be in some serious shit for that. All of us feel more pain in the cold just for the first minute. The point is, the only time he didn’t feel pain was when he had to get in but he flipped it and turned out to be a great power.

He used that pain and transformed that pain and just like very powerful. Everyone’s a little different. Sometimes tactile. You might feel great playing pickleball. Again, I’m just using that because it’s right there. It doesn’t matter. We’re playing an instrument.

Pickleball or basketball or chess or swimming.

I worked out the themes and I was like, “Keep it going in the subconscious.” I’d like to step away, and just keep it going. I tell myself consciously, “Keep doing. Keep writing,” because your subconscious is going to be filled with something. A lot of times, it’s random and it’s crap. It’s like saying you spend 50 years of your life trying to recover from the first five.

I’ve never heard that before. It sounds about right.

Doesn’t it? We’re all the crap we get in this. If you want to be unhappy, read the news every day. There’s nothing good. It’s all manipulated. It’s all algorithms. It’s very little for our benefit that’s there. I say as I walk around with my phone, the irony. Did that answer the question of creative process? There’s technical stuff you have to know like monkey work. If you’re a painter, you got to know about mixing your colors and your brush. There’s a bunch of technical things you have to know about painting. Once you know the technique, it’s almost like dropping it and then just being in the moment.

Do you have a challenge in time coming up with titles for the music that you compose?

That’s part of the art. I have a Zen piano and I have other ones. Look at the Zen piano. The names of the songs are almost like Zen riddles. It’s meant to stop your mind for a moment, but it’s based on a big chart. Its symbols and we translate the symbols into words and a bunch of different words. I’m combining them. I have a big chart on how I do it. Is it a challenge? Yes. Is it fun? Yes.

I’ll just look at the names of one of the most recent ones. Some of the names of the songs are in there and they’re all solo piano. Most pop music is I want you, I need you, I miss you, let’s party on social commentary. These are just solo piano Resonating Excess, Joyful Abyss, Elated Contention, Serene Opposition, Radiant Force, and Exuberant Creation. What do those words mean? It’s all simple and there’s teaching in it.

Every album is a little different. The album is called Joyful Opposition. If you just go to one of my Spotify or iTunes or whatever and listen to the latest album. Whatever ones on the top say the latest because the next month’s will be something else and the next one will be something else. That’s the easiest to do it.

One Breath Is All You Have To Do

If you can give one piece of advice to someone beginning recovery, someone just learning how to sit with themselves. What would it be?

One breath now. That’s it. Nothing more and that’s enough. One breath now is enough.

What do you hope that people take away from this experience?

One breath now is enough.

I thought that’s what you’re going to say. I’m sitting here looking at the question. I’m like, “I know the answer but I’m going to ask it anyway.

Years ago, someone on a show asked me. She said, “What’s your favorite food?” My answer was whatever I’m eating now.

I love that. That’s a good answer. I’m going to use that.

I’m eating one thing and wishing it was something else? No. Whatever I’m eating now is my favorite food.

Is there anything I missed?

No, we’re good.

Get In Touch With Jason

How can people find you? We know how they can find your music, but I know that you lead breathwork sessions and the Zen Wellness Center. You got all kinds. You’re the Sheriff of the town of Cleator, which is a ghost town not far from here. Tell us a little more. We didn’t talk about that. I know I just bought it up.

It’s a ghost town project. 1.4 billion years ago in this area, the continents collided, the plates collided, basically. That’s why there’s gold and there’s hills. The reason this area of the country or even here was for the gold. You have like the Bradshaw Mountains and you have Bisbee, the state seal, the minor guy. Our flag is the Copper State. There’s minerals out there. The town of Cleator was an old mining town from 1864. They came out basically with pickaxes and a lot of willpower.

If you look at what these guys did back then, it’s amazing like physical health. If you think about gold, remember we talked about removal. If we said it’s about removing, if I take ore and I crush the ore and I process it. What’s left? Gold with the right type of ore. In one way, you can say gold is an enlightened door. It’s a funny sort of way if you make a metaphor about removal and purifying.

It was an old mining town and we have a whole project that we’re doing out there, which is a lot of fun. It was supposed to be on Friday. It got rained out. We were going to play disc golf. We had our first Cleator Wild West Shootout Disc Golf Tournament out there with eighteen holes but it got rained out. November 1st is the next one. You’re invited. If you want to come up, I don’t know if that’s possible.

We talked about doing something in the schoolhouse in Cleator. How far is it from here? Is it 45 minutes or half an hour?

From here, maybe an hour or under an hour. It’s not far.

It would be a great field trip.

To do a Disc Golf Tournament might be a cool field trip.

It would be. Anything else? What about those breathwork sessions that you lead in the morning? Do you still do that?

I do breathe mastery. You can find that if you go to ZenPiano.com or ZenWellness.com are two things. We teach. We have a whole process.

Jason, thank you for your time. I appreciate you.

 

Important Links

• Jason Campbell on LinkedIn
• Jason Campbell on Instagram
• Zen Wellness
• The I Ching or Book of Changes
• ZenPiano.com

 

About Jason Campbell

Jason Campbell is a composer, musician, and master instructor specializing in the integration of Zen, music, and wellness. He is a 7th-degree black belt in karate, a successful career composing over 100 albums that have topped Billboard charts, and co-founding Zen Wellness, where he teaches meditation, martial arts, and Eastern medicine. He began his training at a young age, combining a formal music education with extensive study of Eastern disciplines like Zen, martial arts, and meditation.