You Know Exactly Why You Drank. So Why Are You Still Stuck?

 

Everybody in treatment eventually gets the insight. They can tell you why they drank. They can name the childhood, the trauma, the trigger. And then they wake up the next morning and do the same thing they did yesterday.

Natalie Hunter has spent more than twenty years studying why that happens. Her position is blunt: insight alone does not change anybody. What she teaches instead is behavior over belief — that change comes from doing something different, not from finally thinking differently.

In this episode, she walks through her Six Stages of Conscious Change, including the one almost everybody misses: the distance between wanting to change and being willing to change. She lays out what she calls the Four Core Human Wounds. And she is direct about where coaching stops and a doctor starts — including for people whose medication is the reason they are alive.

Tim also ends up in the chair. What starts as a question about guilt and shame turns into an unplanned, on-air look at a pattern he had never traced before: stealing candy as a kid, the adrenaline, and what he was actually reaching for.

Recorded live in front of our clients and staff at Camelback Recovery in Phoenix.

What we get into:

• Why you can say all the right words in a coaching session and still not change
• The difference between desire and willingness
• The “horrification moment” and why it is fuel rather than shame
• The four wounds underneath every limiting pattern
• Why the feeling you are having about your behavior is often the wrong feeling
• What an energy shift actually looks like from the outside
• Where coaching ends and psychiatric care begins

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Watch the episode here

 

Listen to the podcast here

 

You Know Exactly Why You Drank. So Why Are You Still Stuck?

Natalie Hunter has spent twenty years studying why people don’t change. She came to our outpatient center to explain the gap between understanding yourself and actually doing something different — and then walked our CEO straight into his own.

Overcoming The Gap Between Knowing And Doing

My guest has spent more than two decades studying one question. Why do people actually change? Natalie Hunter is a master transformation coach and the chief transformation officer at PersonalBrand.com. She founded Capstone Coaching Institute, which her own students nicknamed Top Gun School for Coaches. She’s been featured in Forbes and on Fox, ABC, and NBC. Last year, she was named one of the top 50 women leaders here in Phoenix. Her clients call her the Tony Robbins of the spiritual world. Here’s why I wanted her in this room.

Natalie teaches something she calls behavior over belief. Her position is that insight alone does not change anybody. You can understand exactly why you are the way you are, have the whole thing figured out, and still wake up tomorrow and do the same thing you did yesterday. Everybody here has had that insight. The insight by itself did not keep a single one of us sober or get a single one of us out of bed on a bad morning. We’re going to talk about the gap between knowing and doing and how you actually get across it. Please help me welcome Natalie Hunter.

Thanks for being here.

I’m so glad that you’re here. I’m glad that I met you at Breakthrough in the Desert, Anthony Balduzzi’s event.

It’s a great event.

That was such a great event.

Really powerful. Energy, people.

It was awesome.

Thanks for coming up now.

Yes, of course. Actually, we’ve got a shout-out to your husband, Michael Hunter, because he’s the one who said, “Here, you got to meet Natalie.” He made it happen. You say people do not change from the inside alone. I want you to say that to this room because almost everybody here has done the work of understanding themselves. They can tell you why they drank. They can tell you where the anxiety started or where the depression comes from, so what is Insight actually good for, and where does it stop?

First of all, I’m so honored to spend time with you in this group. Seriously, I think that you’re among the most powerful souls and the most sensitive souls because you truly experience the depth of darkness and come back and choose to make a difference in your life. I have a long history, too, of working with people who are in recovery. Twenty-two years ago, back at the beginning of my speaking career, I actually ran a speaker bureau, and I employed probably two dozen speakers who were in recovery as well.

They would go to schools, and they would speak about their experiences as a prevention to high school students, middle school students, and college students. I got to be around them and work with them and just feel their heart and feel their soul. I began to understand at a very young age, too, the depth and power of the soul through those beautiful beings. I’ve had my own teachers and my own study over the years too.

Was that Not My Kid?

Yes.

It was. I know you said that. I was like, do you know Gordie Buffon?

Yes.

I know a few others. The names are slipping my mind, but I know a few other people who went through Not My Kid as one of the speakers, and they got to just give talks.

Gordie Buffon was a little later than me. I was there from 2004 to 2008. I was speaking on the dating prevention, safe dating, healthy relationship side of things, but then, because of my speaking background already, they ended up promoting me, and I got to employ all the speakers in the bureau. In 2008, the market crashed, and a non-profit got hit really hard. I got laid off in 2008, and that started my spiritual awakening.

I found my first spiritual teacher because I was really understanding my identity, too, outside of just being this story and this speaker. As soon as I was moving through that, school started calling me again. They were like, “You do not work with this organization anymore. Can you still speak?” I was like, “I think I can. It’s my story. If not, then I became an entrepreneur.” That was 2009 and into 2010. I’d already left Not My Kid by then.

Do you know Kristen Pollina or Kristen Genovese now?

I do not. I know of her. We interacted briefly, but she was after me, and Debbie and Steve Moke, back in 2004.

I know the young Steve. I know Debbie and Steve, but I mostly know the young Steve.

Anyway, that’s how I got into this world as well. I found that my spiritual path really took me deeper into understanding the soul and spiritual transformation. It was 2012 or 2013. I was at an event with my spiritual teacher, and I just had a massive, soul-altering breakthrough. She would guide us through experiences where we would see things about ourselves and have a different perspective on our whole journey, our patterns, and all the things. I remember I just had a big breakthrough myself, and I remember watching her work with someone else in the room and guide them through a breakthrough.

I remember thinking to myself, this is all I want to do with my life. I want to have deeper awareness and breakthroughs for myself, and I want to support other people in having breakthroughs for themselves. It just felt like the most important thing I could ever dedicate my time and energy to. I did not really know I was going to make it my career, and I continued on my spiritual path. In 2017, my gifts started to come online, 16 to 17, which is a whole bit unscored we can talk about later. When I went back out and started speaking again, I decided I was getting all these questions, people saying, “Can I work with you? Can I hire you?”

 

I decided I needed more schooling. I went to coaching school, and I remember sitting in coaching school, and I was watching a coaching demo. I remember thinking to myself, this was supposed to be like a successful coaching conversation. I remember thinking to myself, that guy is actually not going to change his behavior. I just knew that the guy who was being coached was just saying different words. He wasn’t actually having an energy shift because I had been studying energy for a long time at that period in my life. I’ve been standing in front of groups of audiences, supporting them and having different awareness to change their behavior, get motivated, persuasion, and then my spiritual study as well.

Blending Energy Fields With Traditional Coaching

I remember watching this coaching conversation and thinking, I know what an energy shift looks like, and that guy’s not having an energy shift. I know that he’s not actually going to change his behavior. Good to know. I just clocked it. It’s anything. I went into my world, and I started coaching, and I started to put together all the things that I knew and understood from spiritual growth and expansion around the energy field, with the skill of coaching, to create real shifts and changes in my clients.

I started to get incredible results from my clients and finally, over the years, got feedback, too, people saying, “You should make your own coaching program because what you’re doing here is going to just revolutionize this industry when it comes to coaching.” It was all because I was just so much more deeply in tune with people and the soul and the energy field. You’re more than just your mind. You’re more than just your awareness of things. This is a long look back to your answer here. We’re more than just that awareness.

I developed over the years what I call the six stages of conscious change because I started to study what is making somebody change versus what’s making someone not change. The six stages of conscious change are what every soul goes through consciously or unconsciously, actually. All of you have already gone through these six stages because you’ve changed your life. You’ve made it here to a different place. You’ve changed your behavior.

You moved from a place of desire to make a new change to a willingness to actually change your behavior. Desire to make a change and willingness to make a change are two very different things. That is the world that I have played in for so long, understanding that this person is sitting in front of me having a coaching conversation because they have some desire to change. They’re maybe at like a 20% rather than 100% desire to change. What is going to help them increase that desire to change within themselves and then move them over into willingness to change?

That gap between knowing and then doing. What’s actually happening between that gap and how do you get through that gap?

Let’s go back to the stages. Awareness and seeing is actually one of the stages of the conscious change process, is what I call it. Seeing is very important. You’re sitting in a coaching conversation, or you come to a place like this because you’re like, “I see that this is a problem, and I can see and understand the awareness of my behavior.” Another stage that is so important to pay attention to as well is what I call the feeling stage. It’s not just feeling the discomfort of your behaviors and your patterns. I see this a lot.

A lot of people come in for a coaching conversation, and they’re frustrated, and they’re feeling a lot of angst. I say this delicately, but I think you’ll know what I mean because you all are very emotionally intelligent. A lot of times when people want to change their behavior, they’re feeling the wrong thing. I’m not saying that emotion is wrong. Any feeling is accurate, but they’re feeling it with regard to trying to change their behavior. There’s something underneath that they’re not yet accessing. Usually sitting in frustration or confusion, or even anger, around their lifestyle, the pattern, and the thing that’s happening.

There’s always something underneath it that needs to be moved, and this was my study as well of the energy field. We do not have energy as souls here on this planet. We’re energy in motion. As long as you have air in your lungs, you are life force energy moving through. So often, we have emotional energy that gets stuck in our body, gets stuck in the field, and it actually needs to move. When you’re feeling frustration and anger, it’s because there’s something underneath that we haven’t yet seen. We bounce back a little bit more to see, and we start to see the pattern a little differently. We’re looking for the pattern too. We’re not just looking around at the symptoms of our behaviors. We’re looking at the pattern. That’s really what’s going to also support the behavioral change.

As long as you have air in your lungs, you are life force energy moving through. Share on X

That was a lot there.

I know that was a long answer.

No, I love it. I guess you can go through these six stages. Can you go through the six stages?

Navigating The Six Stages Of Conscious Change

One, two, and three are the most important to pay attention to. They actually do not necessarily happen in order. They’re a little bit of a dance. One, two, and three, you can bounce back and forth between, so the third stage is that desire to change. Again, somebody who’s wanting to change their life has at least some degree of a desire to change. They’re not sitting at a full 100. Otherwise, they’d be making a new choice. The first stage is seeing. The second stage is the feeling. The third stage is the desire to change. Fourth is the willingness. To make a new choice. The fifth stage is the actual making of the new choice. Before there’s another framework in there, too the seven stages of change actualization. Before you are progressing around your circle of feeling.

You said that sometimes the feeling is, like, for example, if I’m not acting according to my values, if I were to slip and drink or use, I would have feelings of guilt and shame. Before I got sober, I knew that I was an alcoholic, and I knew that I probably shouldn’t be drinking and doing drugs. I would have this feeling of guilt and shame, and it was just right here in my chest. That was the feeling. Is that the accurate feeling, or really what? What I’m hearing you say is that there’s something underneath it, and that’s really not.

When did you feel the guilt and shame? Would you feel it before you drink, or did you feel it after?

After.

I’m curious what was happening to you before you would engage in that behavior as well?

I still do get that feeling for different reasons. When I’m doing something that I know I shouldn’t do. If I’m not honest, for example, if I’m not honest and I go back and it just, and that’s one of the reasons, one of the reasons why I like to be honest. If I’m not honest, does anybody relate to that? If you’re not honest, and then after the fact, you just, ahh. One of the things I’ve learned how to do is play the tape forward. How am I going to feel if I’m not honest, if I lie, cheat, steal, if I do this thing? I’m going to have to make amends. I’m going to feel shitty. That’s what leads to depression, anxiety, and not feeling good. I want to be happy, joyous, and free.

Can I stop you for a second?

Yes.

Let’s go back just a little bit more. What happens, and what’s the awareness that you have around the pattern of wanting to lie or be dishonest?

It’s the excitement. It’s the excitement. It’s the rush. Being like winning, stealing, like there’s like a high associated with it. Maybe it’s the rush of doing something wrong and not getting caught.

That makes sense.

Again, going back to when I was a kid. I can remember stealing candy from the store. I can remember stealing cat guns from the store. I can remember throwing lemons at a car driving by and hoping not to get caught.

This is good. Let’s go back even a little bit further. What was happening right before that urge hit? Basically, why do you think you felt like you needed that hit?

I do not think I knew I needed the hit. I can tell you that when I grew up, I grew up around some kids in the neighborhood. They were a little bit older, and they would steal candy. I learned that behavior. I learned the lying and the cheating and the stealing from the kids in the neighborhood. Originally, I learned it from other kids. It’s like, “There’s a high that I get from this.” They call it a dopamine hit or whatever. Adrenaline. Maybe adrenaline is more accurate. I liked the adrenaline. I became addicted to the adrenaline.

Those chemicals are so real. Chemical release in the human body, in the energy field, is so real. Where I want to honor and acknowledge that, because that’s a real thing. I want to keep going back, so I keep looking at some of that energy, that behavior, too, right before, again, you would engage in a behavior that would give you that dopamine hit. You said it was the group of kids that you learned that, too. How do I want to ask this? What were you seeking to experience within that group, that friend group at that time?

Maybe part of it was acceptance. Part of it was if I can do something, if I can be bad or if I can be worse than them, then maybe they’ll look highly upon me. Maybe I’ll look like a winner. That’s not the right way to describe it. I’ve never thought about this before. This is the first time I’m ever going through it.

That’s big what you just said right there.

It’s like, I want to be accepted. It’s like, “Look at me.”

What are you feeling right now as you see this and see this about yourself?

It’s a bit freeing to, like, “I’m unlocking something or it’s a realization of something that I did not know, that I wasn’t aware of from dates way back when I was a kid, like ten years old.

Replacing Guilt And Shame With Compassion

Let’s just stay on this for just a second, but I want to speak to everyone with experience on this. I say this probably three times a day to my clients, our people. Your human self and your soul are actually brilliant. Often we go into shame and guilt and fear and just beat ourselves up when we see the desire to engage in a behavior, or we see a pattern again, and we see this part of ourselves that is showing up again. If you look at it from a couple of different angles and you zoom out, and you understand why you may have been feeling that urge or trying to engage in that, you can see that little Tim was actually brilliant because he was wanting to feel accepted.

Your human self and your soul are actually brilliant. Share on X

He wanted to have camaraderie. He was wired for connection as a human being and as a sensitive soul. You can start to see that your behavior, albeit manipulative at times, we look at this honestly. We look at this honestly with ourselves without any shame or judgment. You can actually add some compassion and go, “I’m actually brilliant because I was trying to feel something, and I was trying to create an experience for myself because little me did not know how to create it on their own.” Does that make sense?

It’s not always related to childhood, but a lot of it sometimes is when you look really honestly at things, and you, again I always say your soul is brilliant because you’re playing out a curriculum, and you’re playing these certain lessons in your life, and there’s always a reason for it. My clients call me an energetic chiropractor and like a soul surgeon, but the doctor analogy is my favorite because I really do look at your energy fields without any judgment.

I’m looking at it going, “Where’s the little part? Where’s the little jagged edge that’s creating this ripple that we do not want to be creating anymore?” When we find it, I’m just going to go, “Yes, we found it. Let’s fix this.” Instead of taking a baseball bat to a broken leg, if you find a broken leg or broken bone, I’m not going to take a baseball bat to it. I do not let you take a baseball bat to it either. I go, “We found this. Now we can do something about this.” Look at how brilliant you are. Your body was compensating. Your energy field was compensating.

Your heart was compensating for something else. We could probably unpack more into childhood to understand, and probably have already done this to understand more around that specific piece. When you look at it too, again with compassion, you’re like, little Tim actually was engaging in this because he was trying to get something that he did not have anywhere else. He’s actually brilliant.

Also, I am sitting here thinking about how you are the average of the five people that you spend the most time with, and I’m thinking about kids. I was hiking with a friend on Monday, and he was telling me about his kids and how he called himself an authoritarian. He really likes whipped. He grew up in Wasco, which is in Central California. He said there were probably 100 kids at his high school, and 90 of them are today in jails, institutions, or prisons. He was very lucky, and actually, James, that was at your event. Yes, I’ve hiked with him a couple of times. He was telling me about how he grew up and his upbringing. Man, it’s like, “Look at where he’s at today.”

He was telling me about how his kids are really, like, he doesn’t really let his kids go. Not that he doesn’t let them, but more often than not, they’re going to invite his friend’s kids to his house. Those kids are either going to shape up because he calls himself an authoritarian, and they have rules. They’re going to follow the rules, which, in turn, makes them good kids. They do not really get to break the rules. They become good kids. Their kids’ friends are also good kids. It’s just that the environment always wins. I think about growing up, and I think I’m like James. I got lucky as well because a lot of the people that I grew up with are not, they’re like not doing great. I do not know where I want to go with that, but that’s just what I was thinking about.

I love this. I’m curious too, if and when, just to close the loop, too, on your share and your impromptu coaching working with you. You said every now and then, at this point in your life, too, you feel a little bit of the desire. You do not act on it, but you feel a little bit of the desire for that old hit, that old rush of the chemicals, and the hit from engaging in a behavior that is not going to serve you. Moving forward, which may be lying or being dishonest.

It can be lying, cheating, stealing. I can get the same rush from hiking, running, cycling, working really hard, and looking at TikTok. Those are all versions of the hit.

Honesty, Vulnerability, And Finding True Grounding

I’m just curious, though, if you notice when that feeling, when that desire for that hit comes about as an adult now, too.

I do notice it. Today, I’m very good at just staying grounded, staying centered. If it’s breathwork, meditation, yoga, being in gratitude, connecting with people that I want to be like, having vulnerable conversations. Last night we had a men’s group. It’s Taco Tuesday, but it’s really an open and vulnerable group of men. We all share what’s going on in our lives. Pre-sobriety, I never had anything like that. This is a men’s group. It’s like I call it a non-AAA meeting because there are a couple of guys that are in recovery, but then a couple of guys that are not in recovery.

 

It’s all vulnerability and being open and honest. It’s a safe space. There was actually one guy that was there. He said, “Man, I do not ever share like this. I do not ever share.” He talked intimately about stuff that was going on in his life and his business. He said, “I do not think I’ve ever shared like this before.” I joked, and he said, “You should just become an alcoholic and join AA.” You’ll get to share like this all the time, every day.

That’s amazing. It sounds like, I know you are. You walk the talk. You’re in integrity by making sure that you are surrounding yourself with places and people that allow you to stay sober at this point in your journey. We’re looking just very hypothetically at little nuances to help understand and identify the six stages of conscious change so that we look for the pattern. We’re looking for that pattern. What we did was we identified this pattern retroactively in your energy field.

There’s this feeling of, “I’m maybe a little lonely,” or, “I need to feel like these people love me,” or, “I need to feel like they accept me.” That’s some of the pattern, and seeing the pattern. When we want to talk about the feeling, you already have a depth of understanding with regard to feeling the impact of that pattern on your life. You understand that engaging in that pattern, like trying to get a hit there, engaging in that pattern is sending out a ripple into your life and into the lives of everyone that knows you in a very intense way.

That is what you’ve already spent a lot of time feeling now sober, but there was also that you said that moment where you feel that guilt and shame after you would engage in that pattern. That’s also a feeling that we need to do rather than try to avoid. You have to look at that and understand that when we see our patterns from a clear angle and zoom out and see what we’re doing with our behaviors, we can sometimes get hit with what I call the horrifying moment. Has anybody ever felt that horrifying moment where somebody gives you feedback and you’re like, I actually can see and feel the impact this is having on you? I can see and feel the impact this is having on me.

I can see and feel how this is actually not what I want to create for my life. That’s what I call, I’ve lovingly dubbed it this over the years. The horrifying process. It’s actually fuel for change. It’s actually fuel for you to make a different choice or not engage in a behavior too that you know is not going to be what you want to create for your life. It’s interesting. You can stay in the horrification process without judgment. With just compassion for yourself, go, “I’m actually really not okay with this.”

Feel the feeling all the way down. It’s going to be fuel for you to then move forward into the behaviors that you want to be creating. This also comes with creating healthy coping mechanisms to feel, so sometimes that is a process that we have to go through as humans. We weren’t ever taught healthy coping mechanisms. We weren’t ever taught how to feel. Sometimes we engage in behaviors to not feel and then realize, “I actually was feeling this. Fear, guilt, and shame beforehand. I could actually move it through my body. I wouldn’t have to engage in the behavior that I know is going to send a bigger wrinkle out into the field.” Does that make sense that I say that way?

I know, and what I’m thinking about as we’re talking is, sometimes I do things, and I look back, and I say, “Man, I shouldn’t have done that. Can anybody relate?” What I’ve learned and what I’ve come to accept is that it was the right decision. I’m always making the right decision. It’s never, “Damn, I shouldn’t have done that.” It’s always, it was the right decision and now I feel the way that I feel and I get to sit with my feelings and it’s like, “I do not like feeling this way.” Take that and learn from it so that the next time, so did I make the right, “Man, did I make the right decision? Yes, I made the right decision. Now I know I should make a different decision next time.”

Yes, giving you information. That’s part of your soul curriculum. We’re all playing out what I call your human curriculum, which is part of your soul’s curriculum here on the earth. Again, we look at it with non-judgment. We look at it with just compassion. We look at it with just curiosity. Why am I doing this? Why did I do this? What am I feeling? What am I not feeling? What do I actually want to create for my life? That is actually fuel to create what you actually want to create for your life. Sit with desire, then after that, understanding what do I actually want?

What do I feel called to create? Your intuition is always talking to you as well. Your highest self is talking to you through your intuition and your desires or how that’s communicated to you. From a high place, we all know the difference between maybe a low vibrational desire of the flesh, the body, let’s get a hit, let’s get a chemical rush. We also know a little bit of a higher calling on our lives too and that sensitivity to make a choice in alignment with what your soul, your higher power, the highest part of you is calling you into.

 

One of the things we say in recovery is to pause when agitated or doubtful. Learning how to pause for me, it allows me to play the tape forward. What’s going to happen? How am I going to feel on the other side of this? Just not making impulsive decisions and just sitting with it, playing the tape forward. It’s like, “If I do this, then that’s not going to feel good. Let me do this instead.”

What you’re doing there too is you’re seeing, playing the tape forward, but you’re also feeling. Yes. Wait a sec. What is the ripple that I want to send out? What’s the ripple that this would send out? You’re actually attuning to that with your feeling body. That’s not just your mind. That’s your whole self. That’s your whole energy field that’s attuning to that and going, “Wait, that’s not the desire that I want to create. That’s not the ripple I want to send out into this world right now. Here’s the aftermath that might be created with compassion and love.” Again, non-judgment.

Identifying The Four Core Human Wounds

You talk about the four core human wounds sitting underneath people’s limiting patterns. Walk us through those. In your experience, which one shows up the most?

The four core human wounds are something that I’ve identified over the years, about ten years working with humans, working with very powerful souls. I’ve seen the same four core human wounds throughout all of the patterns that I’ve ever helped people shift and change. The four core human wounds are that I am alone. I am bad and wrong. It’s not safe. I’m not safe. There is not enough. I am not enough. There is not enough. Meaning there’s not enough time. There’s not enough money. There’s not enough energy. There’s not enough breath.

There’s not enough of anything. Scarcity. Those four core human wounds, I’ll get a tiny bit woo here for just a second. They actually are something that all humans share as part of this human experience, from separating from the big oneness of light that we all are. The souls that we are, and yet souls that we are, coming down into a body and this illusion of separateness. It’s actually all part of this beautiful human experience.

If you look at all the patterns, if you look at all the limiting things and patterns and beliefs in your field that have caused you to engage in behaviors that were not in alignment with the highest level of your soul, they all stem down to these four patterns, these four human wounds, the belief system. I’m alone, I’m bad and wrong, it’s not safe, and there’s not enough. The patterns stem from those beliefs. Does that make sense?

Those are like the primary.

Yes, the primary. It’s hard to say which one I see the most because, if we look really closely, you can see that your patterns are actually linking to some flavor of all of them. When I first stepped on a stage in 2004, I was entered. This is when I really started to study energy and the impact we have on each other. I was operating from a very clear operating system that it is not safe on this planet. It is not safe. I am not safe. Therefore, you are not safe. I said this particular talk, this particular message, to thousands and thousands of people over ten years. I would feel the impact of what I was doing in those rooms. I did not quite understand why I wasn’t having the impact I wanted to be having. I wanted people to feel inspired. I wanted people to feel happy.

I wanted people to feel excited after I locked an audience. Quite frankly, that was not always the case. People were bummed out. They were a little bit inspired, but they would stand in a line to talk to me for an hour. Everybody was bringing up their stuff, their own pain, their fears, all of this. It took me a long time to understand that I had been sparking that. It was my energy that was creating that response. That’s really when I started to study, too, how we can impact each other, how we can uplift each other, or how we can bring each other down energetically.

Again, we’re all energy. When you look at somebody, too, like that, like an energy field, I always now look at your soul and look at your light, and I see how brilliant you are. I’m looking at your actual soul, the whole body. That was not how I used to operate. I’m not seeing this from a naive place as well. That’s been a big part of my curriculum for understanding. “Yes, you may be a light soul underneath, but we still have human stuff. We still have human patterns, and we still have things that we need to make sure we’re having boundaries around.” At the time, I was in this I was in this belief that everyone is not safe, and therefore I was telling everybody that they’re not safe.

It wasn’t exactly healthy, and so I had to do a lot of work. I took myself off the stage in 2014 and 2015, and I did not think I’d ever speak again. People told me I was crazy. They were like, “You could ride this story, you could ride this career for the rest of your life. What are you doing?” I just said, “Something is changing within me on a soul level. I’m expanding, and I know there’s something that I need to shift, but I do not know what.” I went even deeper into meditation. I started doing deeper studies with my next teacher. Days on end in silence, silent meditation retreats. That’s when more information started to become available to me.

Alchemizing Your Deepest Wounds Into Superpowers

When we are able to sit in silence with ourselves, feel our feelings, and access that information, a lot is suddenly made available to us. I started to understand and see, and this is really what I call the process of expansion, the process of expanding yourself, expanding your energy field. It’s not just your mindset. Your mindset does get expanded. Your beliefs also get expanded. We’re not trying to scratch out your limiting beliefs. We’re trying to expand your belief system into the more aligned truth of what all that is. In my experience too, the four core human wounds really have, like, an even airtime across all of humanity. If you look at the ways that behavior too can be manipulated, it’s usually because it’s playing on one of those four core human wounds for people.

If you look at what happened during the lockdowns of 2020, if you look at the information that was coming through the news, all four core human wounds were hit, weren’t they? I’m bad and wrong. It’s not safe. I am alone. There’s not enough. If you look closely, you can see humanity was manipulated, too, with some of that, with all of those wounds, because it tapped right on those four core human wounds for all of humanity. I’m not saying this to go out in a conspiracy rabbit hole right now, but I’m saying this, too, for all of us to think about ourselves.

“Wait, where am I engaging in a behavior that maybe isn’t of the highest? It’s because I felt alone.” Looking back at your stuff or looking back at you as a child. Again, with so much compassion. Where am I engaging in a behavior and manipulating others because I feel like there’s not enough? There’s not enough money. There’s not enough air. There’s not enough time. There’s not enough love. Where am I trying to manipulate to get somebody to give me this thing? I feel like I’m lacking right now. It plays out. I do this in my groups. We go very deep into our patterns, and we go, “Where am I engaging in these things because I am feeling this?”

The kicker on the other side of it for all of us to think about too is that I always say your greatest gift is always right up against your strongest will. For me, my biggest wound was that it’s not safe. Once I alchemized that, seeing the work and seeing what I’m doing, because I believe that feeling the impact it was having on thousands and thousands of people amplifies my desire to change and make a new change, make different choices in my life. I can see that it’s actually my greatest superpower. I can make people feel safe. I can make people feel seen. I actually do make people feel seen. If you take one of those wounds and you just flip it for yourself, then you realize, “I feel all the time like I am bad and wrong.”

Do that work. Alchemize. Do soul searching. Get into the heart and soul of the matter for yourself. Understand your patterns. Go through the verification process with so much love. You get to the other side, and you realize, wait a second, I actually have the ability to make you feel like you’re amazing. Your soul is powerful. You can see how each of the four core human wounds actually is very closely tied to our superpowers as humans. We have the ability to make each other feel seen and loved. We have the ability to make each other feel good. We have the ability to make each other feel abundant, and we have the ability to make each other feel safe, truly. Do you see that?

Yes, for sure.

Those are actually our superpowers when we tap into the power of our heart, too. It’s about understanding. Where have I been run by this falsity? Where do I actually believe it’s true with love? We have a list of evidence of all the reasons it is true. When you work through that, and you work through your patterns, you get honest. You can see on the other side like, “Actually, maybe I’m meant to bring this as a gift to the world.”

I love that. Which of the four core human wounds shows up most often, if any of them?

In my client work? It really was pretty even across the board, quite frankly. You see that there are the wounds, the patterns, and then there are the inverse patterns. Sometimes this is nuanced too, but sometimes if somebody feels so unsafe in life, like I’m not safe, this planet’s not safe, whatever, it actually can flip into the inverse patterning, which is like recklessness. Whatever, we’re all going to die anyway. This is temporary. Screw it.

Riding around without a helmet. Things like that. You can see the inverse patterning too. If you get real honest, you realize, deep down, like I do not feel safe. Nothing’s actually safe. Therefore, what does it even matter? You can do what I did, which was to tell power, not safety, and feel that everybody needs to know it’s not safe as well. There’s the directly linked patterns, and then there’s the inverse patterning that I see a lot with all of them.

Zooming Out To Facilitate Real-Time Breakthroughs

I would say I am bad and wrong shows up quite a bit in my client work because the people that I encounter on a regular basis are very powerful souls who are actually here to bring a lot of light and do a lot of incredible work on the planet through PersonalBrand.com. We see a lot of people who are here to create a ripple with their impact on their light. A lot of times it can show up as limiting beliefs, limiting patterns around I’m doing something wrong because I’m different. That usually resonates.

You are known for real-time breakthroughs. Somebody sits down in front of you stuck, and they get up differently. For somebody in this room who has never seen that, what is actually happening in those few minutes? What are you listening for that they cannot hear in themselves?

My clients also joked, too, that I’m a professional Zoomer outer. When we’re in our stuff, it’s like we are banging our head against a wall or we’re moving around a very small room, and we feel stuck on something. Also in the big book, there’s the analogy of the guy who’s at the bottom of the well and somebody who jumps down into the well and says, “I’ve been here before. I know the way out.”

That’s how I approach this is I go into the limitation with the person, but lovingly and gently expanding the field, expanding the space, and asking questions in a certain way to support them in seeing the pattern, feeling the pattern, feeling maybe what’s underneath that pattern too, and amplifying the desire to change before finally they tip over to willingness. One of my favorite things about working in groups is that there’s a camaraderie and a safety that gets activated when we do that in groups. You saw it at Breaking the Desert. I do this in my retreat. I do this in our events.

The people in the audience are rooting for you. They’re rooting for you to get unstuck and holding that safe place for you because you see yourself in that person. We see ourselves in each other. We look really closely through the eyes of love and compassion, and holding that space together creates an even bigger field for expansion and light for people to see what they need to see and feel what they feel. Something magical happens. I do a lot of one-on-one coaching with our clients, but somebody can walk out of a session and then think, “I’m making new choices, but am I actually different? I feel different, am I actually different though?”

When you’re in front of a group, and the energy shifts happen, the chemicals are released, the neural pathways start to become more neuroplastic, the neuroplastic window opens, and you actually start to see the new choice again. To make the new choice in front of someone else, it can get reflected back to you very quickly. We’ve had this happen in our events, too. Somebody’s entire face opens, and they look completely different after a coaching session or after a breakthrough session. They literally look completely different because their energy feels different, but then everyone in the room tells them, “You are different,” and it anchors it in faster, because they’ve watched it happen.

Again, like I do a lot of one-on-one work with some of our clients, but I love doing the group because you get the instant reflection. The people around you are going, “You look different.” We had a mastermind last year, and a guy who was there did a big, beautiful breakthrough session one day. We go into the evening, and then we start early in the morning, I guess. We all leave for the day, come back the next morning, and one of the guys within the group, there’s only like twenty people in the room, looks over at him. He goes, “Man, did you get a haircut?” His face looks so different.

His body looked different. His face was more open. There was no time for him to get a haircut before 8:00 PM. At 8:00 AM the next morning, he was there traveling, too, so it was just a funny little moment where he absolutely did not have time to get a haircut. The guy did not get a haircut, but his energy was different. He was more open. His face was more open because of the breakthrough he had the day before and understanding himself.

What’s also really happening in these beautiful breakthrough sessions that I’m so honored to get to facilitate is somebody is seeing themselves differently. They’re seeing their power differently. A lot of times we’re using our power against ourselves. As I said earlier, feeling the wrong things. We’re feeling frustrated. We’re beating ourselves up. I’m not saying that you shouldn’t feel frustration or anger at times, but that guilt and that shame, and then taking the baseball bat, beating up your broken bone, is a misappropriation of your life force energy.

When we’re in the field and I’m holding that compassionate space for somebody and we’re guiding them into looking at things a little differently, it actually shifts them and shifts the energy into a little bit more love and possibility. Everyone is holding that with you too. It is a very beautiful thing, and conditions have to be right for it to really hit. You’ve seen it happen live as well.

Somebody cuts up. They think they can see what the thing is that’s keeping them stuck. The truth is, they cannot see it clearly yet because they cannot see how they’re appropriating their power to it. They cannot see how there’s a way through this, and they cannot see the new choice to make yet. When I come in and hold the space, I’m coaching. I’m just asking questions to support that awareness and opening with it.

You cannot read the label from inside the jar. It’s like I need somebody else to give me feedback and tell me where to go, tell me what to do, give me direction, ask me questions, give me guidance. That’s where I’m going to see the breakthrough.

The coaching industry, and I do not know if anyone’s very familiar with the coaching industry in the world, but the coaching industry has a bad rap. A lot of people are trying to make a quick buck, and they’re trying to manipulate people. We see it all the time with marketing, things like that in our world. In actuality, the skill of asking questions and supporting somebody to see something differently, feel something differently, and understand the ripple they’re sending out.

Actually is one of the most important skills you can have as a leader and as a soul here who wants to impact lives. The transformation process is experiential, meaning somebody has to go through it themselves. They have to see something different. They have to feel something different. How many of you have been told what to do and you just were like, “Cool, I’m never doing that.” Just telling someone what to do and consulting with them all day long doesn’t create change.

That person is like, “Cool, I do not know what you think I’m going to do with that, but I’m not necessarily changing my behavior because of that.” When you lovingly support somebody who has a desire to change, they have to have at least a little bit of a desire to change. Otherwise, it doesn’t exactly work. If they have at least a little bit of a desire to change, we can amplify that by helping them see more about the pattern, see more about themselves, and feel what might need to be there or feel the impact of what they’re doing and how it’s impacting their life.

The Integration Of Coaching, Therapy, And Trauma Support

Let’s move on. I love it. This is a good one for this group, actually. I want your honest answer on this one. Some of what people are carrying in this room is not a pattern or a limiting belief. It’s a diagnosis. Major depression, bipolar, OCD, PTSD, anxiety, alcoholism, drug addiction. For some of them, the medication is the reason they are alive to be sitting here. When somebody hears you change your behavior, raise your frequency, you’re creating your own reality. There’s a version of that a person uses to talk themselves off of their meds. How do you tell the difference between what coaching can move and what needs a doctor?

In our coaching training, we spend a lot of time making sure that we educate coaches on the difference between coaching and therapy and what actually does need a diagnosis, too, and I think one of the best doorways into that is understanding trauma. I’m trauma-informed, but even though I’ve been in this for a long time, I would not at all claim to be an expert. I know that trauma shows up in a lot of different forms, and it is giving us information, and it’s giving us a lot of extra things that we have to work through in this life.

I honor that, and I make sure that I’m very clear about that in this work that sometimes there are traumatic things that we, as humans, need support to move through to feel to actually transcend that goes beyond the realm of coaching goes beyond the realm of just you know raise your vibration. I do not pretend to be, you know, and discount that because I know that it’s a very real thing. What I would say to that, too, and with a lot of love and compassion, is again, your soul is brilliant. There are keys, there are gems, there are pieces of your own wisdom that can be unearthed through this process. It’s not always so cut and dry.

It’s frustrating too when it comes to the diagnosis world, too, like people. Sometimes doctors can be cut and dry on this, and this is what it is, and this is what you need to see, this is what you need to see, or this is what you need to change, and this is it. I would say that your soul is brilliant. It can be true that you need emotional support and sometimes coaching, things like that. Also, the support of a doctor, the support of a chemical that can support your brain and get you to a place where you can actually function and make these new changes.

I always sit in and have so much understanding and so much compassion for someone’s journey. My job as a coach is just to support you in the thing that maybe you’re feeling right in that moment that you want to change. Never going to come in and say, “This is exactly it.” I’m going to ask questions. That’s the brilliance of the coaching modality, too.

I’m going to ask questions to help understand, too, what you’re thinking and feeling that maybe hasn’t yet been seen or addressed before, and see what we can see together about your own brilliance, your own gems. The things that are in you may be buried in your awareness that you haven’t been able to access yet for yourself. All of that is possible even with medication and the power of doctors supporting you too. I do not know if I’m answering your question very well. How am I doing here?

She answered the question. What do you guys think?

I feel like souls who go through deep trauma and end up in this type of world or treatment center, in a place where they need chemical support and the support of a doctor to stay on this earth. I honestly truly feel some of the deepest feelings and most powerful beings and souls on this earth. I hope that you hear that and that it hits you where it needs to hit you. Your sensitivity is your superpower. There are times when we have used our superpowers against us. There are times when we feel we cannot function because we feel so much, and therefore a chemical can support us, and numbing that out supports us in those moments.

We talked about it. It got you to this point. It does actually no good to continue to sit in guilt and shame and beat yourself up for any choice that you made to this point. I say that with love. It’s information. It’s part of the journey. It’s going to support you moving forward. It’s about deciding, “Where do I want to go next? What do I need next? What am I feeling in this moment? What do I want? Am I playing out right now? What do I need to support myself right now?”

Maybe the coping mechanisms I’ve engaged in before are not what I want to keep choosing. I’m not going to make them bad or wrong, though. I’m going to give them information. I showed that before. I saw that. I saw what path that took me down. Now I feel like there’s a different path. I might need a little bit more support. I might need a little bit more coping mechanisms in place that can be worked with. It’s about understanding where am I at right now? What do I feel right now? What do I need?

What do I need? Where do I want to go?

I say this with love. Part of this human journey. We’re not trained at a young age to be able to speak our needs and get our needs met. We find ways to cope. We talked about, too, how we find ways to get those chemical hits, whether it’s from a behavior or from an actual substance. We find ways to cope because we do not know how to get those people at a young age. As we get older, when our brain fully develops more, and we get to a different level of awareness with ourselves, we can meet those things a little differently.

Live Breakthrough: Breaking Down Protective Layers

I love that. Now I want to open it up, either open it up to questions, or if someone wants to work with Natalie, we can do that. Do you want to work with Natalie?

I want to hear what’s coming up for you too, so tell me, and then we can move.

“My name is Jordan. I’ve had a lot of feelings of not fitting in, probably coming up from past traumas and stuff like that, but I also like not letting people in as well, which creates a hostile, like not loving, kind of space.”

What you just said is brilliant awareness, by the way. Create some more of that.

“I feel like I’m creating a space around me that is harmful to a lot of people, and I just realized some of it yesterday and last night. It doesn’t feel the best to sit down with that. That’s where I guess I’m at.”

First of all, thank you for sharing that and for the valuable awareness. I see a lot about this and the sending out and feeling it. Tell me about what you’re feeling. He said it doesn’t feel great.

I feel embarrassed. I feel bad for the people affected. I feel like I’m bringing a lot of old behaviors with me into rehab. The behaviors that kept me safe while I was out there using and drinking and stuff like that. I need to shed some of those layers off. I just feel bad that some of those layers are causing fallout onto some people.

It’s because it’s right where you’re supposed to feel. I say that with so much love because once we get sober, we take away that and we see a pattern. Wait, the pattern is still there. This thing I still do too. That’s the magic happening. That’s what you’re seeing right now. It’s created already. You’re like, “I did this. The power of time. My own energy and life force.” As you’re seeing it, you’re realizing, “I’m doing this.” You also possess the power. Honor that.

“Thank you.”

How do you feel as I say that?

“Supported.”

I just want you to put two middle-level quotes. Your eyes were excited to cut you next to yourself and your soul. Last night, you said you were seeing a lot of that. You were feeling some of that fallout that caused the behaviors. You said, do you feel a little nice about that?

“It’s sad.”

Do you feel sad about that?

“I feel sad that, like, I’ve caused a lot of harm just in general. I’m not like being who I actually am. It’s like all protective layers. I do not feel like I get to be myself very often. I feel like I’m in a space to somewhat do it. As I said, those walls are so built up like concrete that it’s hard to break them down a little bit.”

Why do you beat up that compassion?

“Probably not to get hurt myself and then authenticity. There is a lot of safety around it. Being authentically myself in today’s world is scary. There are like safety threats to like my physicality and stuff like that.”

Keep yourself safe. When do you start?

“Around age five, like, real young. I was very like aware of myself, and I did not feel that when I brought certain things to my mom, she could hear them because she was like in school trying to support her family and stuff like that. She wasn’t able to spend emotional time and energy on me.”

That makes a lot of sense too.  It’s more real. What else did you desire at that time? See, that’s really big.

“I need to pretend to be somebody else. Whoever people wanted me to be in order to get my needs met.”

What impact did that actually have on?

“It sucks, like, setting that person aside for other people.”

What happened?

“I guess that person did not really grow up or let go anywhere. I guess it festered into alcohol and drug addiction to keep that person down.”

How would you feel?

“Not good. Restrained, claustrophobic.”

Some students know, and all that is female too. What do you see now?

“That there’s willingness to be there and just start, like, growing that person. I’m just really scared. That person is scared. I guess it’s like rejection or abandonment.”

Will you be off the projector?

“I guess people that I care about or things that I want in life, I do not think I’ll be able to achieve them.”

What do you want to achieve?

“I just want to be authentically myself. I want that person who is capable, with a lot of potential to reach that potential. I do not know what that necessarily looks like, but I know that there is potential that’s unmet. I guess, like, society, for sure. I already feel abandoned by that. I do not necessarily feel like my family would anymore, but I did. I still falter back and forth between it when I’m in, like, trauma responses and stuff like that. A lot of like friends seeing since I am like again I do not have the typical traditionalism behind families and stuff like that I can adopt and stuff like that but like families I mean people are getting married then they have children and then they forget about their friends. Things look a lot different as you age.”

You have a brilliant heart, do you know that?

“Yes.”

I can see your mind is looking at all the different possibilities. Your mind is speaking. I had to look into all the different doorways, corners, and your intuition. I call it going into the future rooms of the house, too. You’re looking at all the different wallpapers all the time around. She’s like, “This could happen.” Sometimes we think things are against us to keep ourselves more feared, keep ourselves more stubborn. For lack of a better term, shit I do. Everywhere I turn, there’s a possibility of being. One’s a little less, but it’s a possibility still there. Your mind so it’s so smart. I’m curious, at the end of the day, just getting into your power, your heart, what do you have at the end of the day?

“On myself. I guess. I’m not sure if I can trust that self.”

That’s you. There is also a very brilliant part of you that is inside you. It’s there. What you just said is also brilliant. I think the word gets building that trust. What are some things you can do? First of all, let’s go back for just a second. What are a couple pieces of evidence that you have right now in your journey that you can trust?

Separating Consciousness From The Hijacked Mind

“The motivation and willingness and the leaps that I’ve taken. I was living in Colorado before this, and when I went to detox, I wasn’t sure if I was going to even make it through the whole detox or if I was going to return. On day three, I had a little bit of a moment with myself where I’m like, “I’m just going to jump in. I’m going to go to residential here in Aurora, an hour from my house in the spring, so that way I’m not tempted to leave at all. I’m going to pack all my stuff and move to Phoenix so that way I’m locked in and away from a setting that is very toxic for me. I’m just going to jump in and do whatever I have to do.”

What I heard you just say was you set up circumstances for yourself to protect yourself, and like I said, lock yourself in and give yourself what you need. That’s not. You do that about yourself. That’s pretty strong. What other evidence can you mean, with two other pieces of evidence you have right now, if you can’t trust yourself?

“I guess I have awareness that I separate myself from my brain because I know my brain is hijacked at the moment. That part I feel trust with, and then I do have a support team that will call it out, like if things are up. I met with my sponsor yesterday. I took over step three, and it was very laid out like, “You’re not being loving and kind. You need to get your shit back together.” It was like you said, it was motivating, but it did not feel good to realize that you’re being a piece of shit.”

What I call horrification. In it, being horrified at yourself. If you could stay in it just a little bit longer, it actually does become fuel, because we realize I don’t actually wait. I never see that about me. I see that about me. I do not want to feed that. Nobody can tap it to your brilliant creator S, creator abilities. See what you want. Just to go back for just a second. You said something else really brilliant. I want to talk about that for another second. You said you separated from your mind. Your brain was hijacked. There’s a lot of chemicals going on. When you say you separate yourself from your brain, what is that other self? Tell me about that other part of you, the real self that is also present.

“Probably like consciousness or like the soul, I guess, because I’m away also from my body too. I can feel my Vagus nerve going insane right now, but there’s going to be something more, as I can separate it like that and have the thought of separating it. I do not know what that necessarily looks like, because there’s a little bit of resentment towards something I have in myself.”

Right there. That little one of like maybe there’s something bigger than all of this. That’s right there. No one to play with. Hang out. I’m going to give you a little tea here. Nobody has figured it out. Everybody’s figuring it out in life. I know it may not look like that. You look at somebody like, “They’ve got their shit together.” I talked about this on a show too. How many emotionally dysregulated millionaires are there in the world, right? It doesn’t matter.

Nobody has it figured out. Everybody is figuring it out. Share on X

There are just different resources that we may have access to at those moments. Everyone is on this journey on this Google Earth plan, figuring it out. At the end of the day, this work right here you’re doing is the most important work, and the work that you’re doing right now at this point in the journey is deeper than most humans ever go when it comes to awareness and consciousness. We read a stat with regard to the hawker scale of consciousness. I have studied the hawker scale and got the consciousness of the tool for another time the other day, but it actually might be very interesting to some of you because it talks about vibration in the form of emotion.

Do not take it too literally at times, but shame and guilt lower frequency emotion and it’s about different areas of your life all the time around. Anyway, in this book I thought about this scale of consciousness. He talks about how most humans in their lives only raise about 20 to 30, maybe 50 max, points in consciousness and awareness in a lifetime. I’m willing to bet that if you’re sitting in this room, you’ve raised and expanded your awareness and your consciousness by yourself, your good behaviors, your stuff, and your patterns and all those things being more than that in the past three or four months, haven’t you?

That makes you a strong soul. That makes you a deeper soul sphere with a little bit more what I call advanced curricula honor. These are the souls I love to work with and love to talk to. You can’t talk to people who only want to talk about the weather. Talk about the news, but not that there’s more to this life. What you’re just tapping into is your bigness, your heart, your soul, your consciousness, and your sensitivity. That’s the area that you’re getting to explore. That’s the area that we all get to explore. It’s not black and white. “I’ve got it figured out.” That’s what we tell ourselves. You’re not trying to figure that out. Thank you for sharing all that. I’m not done.

I just wanted to acknowledge all that. You double-tapped on that thing you said about separating yourself from my physical body. Your physical body is the opponent, and your soul is having an experience that’s powerful. At the end of the day, you do also have that. It’s about understanding that sometimes my flesh and my soul can go into battle with each other, but which one do I want to? That’s what I feel you tapping into the power of this big, and it doesn’t even necessarily have to be God. We’re talking about your soul too. Your soul has got this expression of it gone, and that’s really what I feel tapping into more than ever. How are you going as I say all this? What’s coming up?

“I just keep picturing like the vagus nerve shaking off stuff.”

What’s it shaking off?

“Black. Gunk.”

What’s the output of black?

“Maybe like some light and some breath in a room.”

I want to talk for just one more minute about the relationship between you and you, and trust the building part of the journey, building trust in yourself. I talked about a couple of the ways you have yourself back right now. Rest on those. Trust that. Again, we’re on a journey. All of us. We’re making it happen every single day. Working it through, doing the best we can every single day. These are awesome. Some days are really shitty. Some days are expensive.

Reforming Your Relationship With Your Younger Self

Some days are contracting. That’s part of the journey, too. Right now, you just gave me two very strong pieces of evidence. I could give you three very strong pieces of evidence that you’ve got your own back, and you trust yourself. As you’re looking a little bit forward, what are some other pieces you want to set in place between you and you to establish that trust?

“I need to create space for healing in the body. I need to do things for where the trauma is stored in the body. Taking myself out on like dates, I guess you could say, and reforming like a relationship with myself and probably doing like parts work with my younger self, but like actually doing it, not just talking about it.”

I love that. Why do you actually want to do it now?

“They need to and like want to. That person is so suppressed in there. It’s literally just a kid who hasn’t grown at all. That person, that kid needs to grow and be held hands with, I guess.”

Hopefully. I’m curious, you had to put a number on it. On a scale of 1 to 10, where would you say you are, 0 to 10? These pirates have got this far.

“A 10.”

How do you know your rate?

“Truly, I’m just open. I’ll do whatever at this point. There’s a little bit of stubbornness that maybe lasts one or two days, and then it breaks.”

That’s the flesh dying off. My spiritual teacher used to say that once the ego is dying, that flesh it’s having makes a lot of noise, like it’s a dying animal. I actually think about it a lot. The ego flares up. The parts of you that are saying, “Wait, you need me here,” screaming at us, really are just trying to remake that. That’s where the parts come in so helpful to just give it a job, put it in gold, thank it for protecting me. Thank you for getting me this far in grief. Part of my ego wants to yell right now, but it’s actually getting me to die off. That’s what you’re doing, and it’s extremely powerful. One more question for you. What is something that you can do today to start to heal even deeper this relationship with self?

 

“I’d like to take accountability. I wasn’t here for the morning group, but I just want to take accountability for not sharing in groups and being maybe like passive-aggressive and just like not the nicest person to some of the people in here. I’m not like creating safe spaces for people to heal and stuff like that. Other people that are watching that happen are experiencing fallout from that as well. It’s just awkward and weird and tension and stuff like that. I just want to apologize for all of that. I’m open to it being called out. I’m probably going to do yoga.”

There’s yoga coming. That’s amazing. Wait, let’s pause for just a second. Everybody just gives Jordan a little bit of love and acknowledges that big shout-out award. How did it feel to receive Miss Province as a witness to Jordan as he’s sharing all this to take accountability? Does anybody feel anything and want to reflect on what he had back? Just one or two words.

“It’s clear that he has the willingness because just by his actions, like what he’s been doing in the program or getting a sponsor, like doing things that he hasn’t done for me. It’s very clear that he wants change.”

Just open up and receive that.

“Yes. Just like we’re saying right now about like being stubborn and stuff, as I could definitely see a change during just the last two days from like what we went through over the weekend to like now, and not just words there.”

I appreciate that. How does it feel to receive that?

“Good. Validating. It’s like the things that I like to do for myself, like I’m doing my program, and I know I agree that I’ve helped a lot of people out the way, but just I’m talenting like that and set a great example or whatever. In a sense, it’s worth it. Just myself trying to get better and being able to help along the way.”

Yes, so well said, and this is also why I love to do this work in groups. As I said, I believe that every group that comes together like that, you have soul contracts with each other to see each other and support each other through this part of the journey. It’s a process, not by accident that you’re here. You believe that too, huh? This is all happening to be here.

You’re supposed to be here.

The Healing Power Of Group Accountability

You’re all here together at this time for very deep reasons that we don’t always get the awareness of, but sometimes we get glimpses of, and we’re like, “Shoot, that person held up a mirror for me. That person might have turned out to be a light tube and made that person better. I’m working on my own program, but man, I wouldn’t have seen this and had it not been for not.” You start to really see it from a high level and understand again that my soul might be brilliant because giving me the pieces I need, giving me keys that I couldn’t have found on my own.

We’re not supposed to do this alone. If we were supposed to do this alone, we wouldn’t have incarnated on a planet with 8 billion other people. We’re here having this experience and getting to experience each other through this. I want to have one or two more reflections for Jordan. Thank you. That was beautiful and really powerful. Anybody else just maybe shout out words that you feel from Jordan right now?

“Determination.”

A bird. That’s validation.

“That was very validated.”

Awesome. Anyone else?

“I agree. Jordan, he’s definitely doing everything he can, grabbing everything he can. My observation of both Deon and George yesterday was that you could tell them to really reached out, and so you’re on the 100% right path that says you’re already going through the steps. You say you’re on three more now, and that’s just really spectacular to get. My advice you said you have trouble with being gay. Anybody who has trouble with you being a DA person, they have issues with themselves. They need to experience the world. I wouldn’t be too concerned with anybody who doesn’t know that. Everybody’s dealing with their own issues. Again, I shout out to the other Jordan so far. I’ve seen the current just for the last two days. I’m very impressed.”

That’s exactly it. It’s all a contract with each other. The mirror, the love for each other, and something else I feel. Thank you for saying that. Thank you for sharing that too. Something else I feel is really important to share for this specifically. The more I’m in your field, the more I get to feel all of you too, and I was sharing this because this is true for all of you. The amount of light that’s coming through you can be very intimidating to people who maybe do not have a similar path, do not have coping mechanisms, and like you were saying, the light is going to do what the light does.

If you’re walking through life, walking through a store, your light is emanating from you, and it’s going to shine on other people’s darkness or areas where there is no light, and it creates a trigger. Because humans have eyes that look out first, we’re looking out first for the problem rather than going, “I’m triggered. I feel some kind of way. What’s that about?” Most humans are going to look out and try to find a problem with somebody in their circle. That’s where the backlash comes. That’s where the judgment comes from. That’s what that actually is.

As you were saying, something within somebody that they’re seeing and is being revealed within them. They do not know what to do with it. They’re frustrated. They’re just going to put it out there on you and make you the problem. I do a lot of work on the energetic side of things too to help powerful souls really strengthen their light and energy, and you’re all doing this already in this place too. Strengthen the day by yourself so that you are a bit stronger. We feel so deeply as sensitive souls, but the goal is to be shining stronger than the shit coming in so that you can remain steady in those moments.

Aligning Internal Energy For External Transformation

This is exactly what you do to create that strength within yourself by doing the deep work that you’re doing, that you’re all doing right now, to remember even in the face of some stuff going on outside of you, someone else’s shit, someone else deciding that they can’t handle your light and leaving. In the face of all that, you still have yourself. You still have a connection to something bigger and better and greater and anything else that’s strong. Once that gets really strong and solidified, you start to be able to move differently through the world with that.

Things will start to change around the physical too. You actually won’t have some of those people in your life that aren’t a vibrational match anymore because you’re vibrational. Did that make sense? Does that resonate with you? You get that. You know that. Your whole life changes when you change internally and energetically. The physical is the last part to always reflect the change because the physical is the most dense of all the energy fields.

Your whole life changes when you change internally and energetically. Share on X

It’s going to take a little bit longer to show a bit of physical strength. The results that you’re creating now internally are going to take a little bit of time to show themselves as pivotal, but they will. If something is not fully showing itself yet, it’s on its way because you’re doing the work here. You’re doing this part to rip it out. Does that make sense? I got a little woo there, but like, this is actually based on science too. You have an energy field that is rippling out of you, and it’s having an impact on the world around you too. How do you feel as I say all this?

“A lot more chill and grounded.”

Anything else that you were seeing? Any other revelations or choices you feel guided to make?

“I really like the part where the internal work is going to create the external influence. There’s more hope there than just a fear of not being successful.”

This is a remembrance too deep remembering us our power and our like and it makes so much compassion and we realize “I created yeah whatever is currently happening based on a wound based on feeling this based on this,” or like you were saying you know creating this environment around you, it’s maybe not totally happy and healthy for everyone else at the moment. When you understand that compassion, this is the first step because then you continue. I’m exactly where you’re at. That’s where all of you are at. This is empowering, helping remind each of you of your freaking power, your soul, your power of your light. How do you feel? Close it out.

“Better. I feel closed out in a good way.”

I honor you two for going deep, going into that share so deeply and also letting the emotion move, because sometimes it’s just stuck. I encourage each and every one of you to be in that emotional state, too. If you feel it come up, we talk about the breakthrough. I like to think about it like sometimes it’s a roller coaster that you didn’t know you were in line for at the deep park. All of a sudden, this roller coaster rolls up in front of you, and you’re like, “There’s an emotion. I need to feel it. I do not necessarily know if I want to get on it.”

If you actually get on that roller coaster, you step into that emotion, and the way you do is by connecting. It’s on the emotions wheel over here, feelings wheel. I love it because it’s so helpful. Anyhow, connect what I’m feeling to an emotion. As soon as you put a word to it and connect to it, then your body actually accepts it, they start to let it move, feel it. Science is proving now that if you connect to the emotion and let yourself feel it and let yourself move through that wave, it actually will only be about 90 seconds in the brain.

That’s what was happening with you. You said I’m feeling sad and the sadness started to move and then started to leave the body, and feel after about 90 seconds. I’m not saying that we’re dealing with things like grief. You just feel it for 90 seconds, and you’re good. No, it’s each wave of emotion that does come up as part of this. Honoring you for letting yourself feel the emotion too, and that also creates that soul extension.

“Thank you.”

Thank you. If we get another round of applause.

We got a quick question. We got to wrap it up.

“I got first. What is the sixth stage of change? I got awareness, desire.”

After you make any change, there’s what I call the seventh stage of change actualization, which we can talk about on the other side too, but it’s a little bit more around understanding exactly, but you all picked it up so fast. It’s understanding that when you put a new action into place, you have to hold that frequency while it gets created in the physical. That’s about change actualization. That’s all of us. The sixth stage is understanding that we’re progressing higher and more expanded in our soul curriculum. I call it progressing around the circle of healing and your circle of expansion because your soul is expanding its awareness, and as we talked about, your beliefs are actually expanding.

What’s possible is actually expanding. Your feelings are just expanding. You’re expanding capacity energetically. That’s what happens on the sixth stage. You actually go up in awareness and consciousness, expanding. It doesn’t mean you won’t see the pattern again, but you’ll see the pattern again from an expanded state of much more expanded awareness. That’s the conscious change part. That’s again where you’re going, “I can see it, but now I see what I would have done in the past. I feel already what that would create in my life.”

Playing the date forward like Jeff said, you’re seeing it through an expanded light, and that’s creating more awareness about your own lesson and curriculum. We all have our own curriculum in this life. We’re all going through certain lessons like self-abandonment 101, abandonment 202, safety 303. We have these curriculum pieces in our soul and our life and our human self that we’re navigating as we use it. Hopefully that helps. I’m trying to give you, like, the broad answer, but it can be a little bit nuanced with every person’s curriculum.

“What is the name of your company?”

Elevating Changemakers With Capstone Coaching Institute

I’m with PersonalBrand.com, a company where my husband and I support influencers, but I also have a coaching institute too. It’s called Capstone Coaching Institute. We train coaches in what I was doing with you and how to facilitate that process of expansion from the soul level with coaching. Good question.

I’m going to ask her to give you all that information at the end. Did you have a quick question? I guess that leads to the closing question, which is what do you want to promote? What do you want to talk about? How can people connect with you? How can people find you? How can they learn more about you? Any books?

My book is coming. My book is coming in the near future, in a few months. It’s about changing lives and impacting people. The four stages and four pillars of transformational leadership, which is about what each of you has. It’s about your own tapping into your own brilliance and your own strengths to change lives around you with your own soul light. That’s coming. I do not know if anybody’s on Instagram. That’s the new business card these days. Natalie Hunter Live is me on Instagram, or you can find me at NatalieHunterlive.com as well. Things are coming.

Lots of things are coming. I’m in a little bit of a rebrand with our company. It’s a course to see, especially for those who are what I call change makers, world changers. We’re very sensitive beings, sensitive souls. There are pieces that I think we navigate that not everybody truly understands. When you’re here as a big expanded soul experiencing human life, it’s hard to explain your big self and your big soul. That’s where I come in. I help translate some of that in a way that supports incredible souls like you to do what you gain.

“My favorite podcast so far.”

Amazing. Thank you.

I hope this was helpful to everybody, and I just appreciate the time that you all gave to hold space for each other and for me and for the shares. It was incredible. Thanks.

Awesome, Natalie. Thank you so much. Let’s give it up for Natalie Hunter.

 

Important Links

• Natalie Hunter
• Natalie Hunter on LinkedIn
• Natalie Hunter on Instagram
• PersonalBrand
• PersonalBrand Breakthrough
• Camelback Recovery

 

About Natalie Hunter

Natalie Hunter, PCC, CPC, ELI-MP, is a Master Transformation Coach and the Chief Transformation Officer at PersonalBrand.com.

She founded Capstone Coaching Institute, a 200-hour ICF-accredited coach training program.

She began her speaking career in 2004 at notMYkid, the Phoenix prevention nonprofit, where she went on to run the speakers bureau.

She has been featured in Forbes and on Fox, ABC and NBC, and was named one of the Top 50 Women Leaders in Phoenix for 2025.